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People don't suddenly become stupid when they learn how to program. Plenty of "techies" can analyze Apple's strategy just fine. Similarly, being a non-"techie"

by ekidd 16y ago

People don't suddenly become stupid when they learn how to program. Plenty of "techies" can analyze Apple's strategy just fine. Similarly, being a non-"techie" does not automatically bless you with deep understanding of what Apple's doing.

tvon 16y ago
All true, but there is certainly a significant portion of the techie community that sees Apple as a company that succeeds entirely based on marketing themselves as being hip while building blingtastic stupidware for people who are unable to think for themselves. That is who this article is talking about, I gather.
- jarek 16y ago
  I don't see how seeing this is incompatible with the revelation that Apple sells experience.
roc 16y ago
The article is clearly talking about the subset of techies who feel it necessary to repeat themselves -- ad nauseum -- any time the word "Apple" enters their orbit. And their actual actions and discourse is easily as tiresome as the imagined annoyance from the strawman "macolytes" they conjure during their rants. Which is to say: I know exactly one type of people who unwaveringly watch what Apple is doing, opine loudly on every move they make and proclaim a singular truth and vision. They are a subset of techies and they are absolutely not Apple fanboys.
ZachPruckowski 16y ago
No, they don't become stupid. But their view of the uses of computers changes. Everyone reading this post is in the top 5% in terms of computer skill. The majority of the friends of everyone reading this post are in the top 25% in terms of computer skill. It gives a very warped perspective of the "average computer user". You know that guy who's still getting the hang of EBay and Amazon and who Googles URLs instead of typing them? He's the average computer user[1]. Which means half of all computer users are less capable than him. For instance, consider the sentence "Angry Birds is lots of fun - you should get it from their website, they take paypal"[2]. To HNers that's incredibly straightforward and simple - (1) Google "Angry Birds", (2) make sure it's a legit site, (3) look for the "Buy" button, (4) check out, (5) enter your paypal information, and (6) install the game. To me (and most HNers, I'd imagine), the hardest part of that is "what was my PayPal password again?", but to the average computer user, that's a confusing 30 minutes, part of which will be spent on an ornithology site. It's for that average user that things like the Mac App Store and locked-down phones were designed. The point of this long, meandering post is that the reason techies have issues analyzing Apple's strategy is because they mis-over-estimate the skill of the average computer user, for the totally understandable reason that they're surrounded by people with well-above-average computer skills. [1] - Probably hyperbole, but not by much. [2] - I've actually never played Angry Birds.
- bad_user 16y ago
  Everyone reading this post is in the top 5% in terms of computer skill Yeah, pat yourself on the back, you're smart. who's still getting the hang of EBay and Amazon, who Googles URLs instead of typing them Never used EBay, never bought anything from Amazon and I also Google for URLs from time to time ... pretty sweat if you can't remember the exact string. techies ... mis-over-estimate the skill of the average computer user I actually think we underestimate the "average" computer user more often than not. Apple's products are not idiot proof. The iPhone itself does take some time before you become productive with it. But they make the learning process fun and they respect their customers enough to not make them feel like idiots. Also, there is no such thing as an "average" computer user, as that would mean some kind of common-denominator, which would be false since all people have different personalities / skills. I've actually never played Angry Birds. The game is free of charge in the Android market. Search for it and click install.
  - calloc 16y ago
    > Yeah, pat yourself on the back, you're smart. He put you into that same category ... > Never used EBay, never bought anything from Amazon and I also Google for URLs from time to time ... pretty sweat if you can't remember the exact string. He is referring to people that type "facebook" into google to go Facebook.com. He is making a generalised statement. Generally to present an argument or point it is okay to make generalised statements to help bring a point across. > I actually think we underestimate the "average" computer user more often than not. I tend to overestimate them, to each their own. Who are you qualifying as "we" here anyhow? Clearly I don't belong in your "we". > Apple's products are not idiot proof. The iPhone itself does take some time before you become productive with it. But they make the learning process fun and they respect their customers enough to not make them feel like idiots. No, not idiot proof but they are easy enough to pick up and start using by just playing, click on options, turn stuff on and off, download new apps to play with, hit the home button and back you are in familiar territory. The same could not be said for some other pieces of software. It took me a while to figure out how the Zune worked for instance, it wasn't intuitive like my iPod was. > Also, there is no such thing as an "average" computer user, as that would mean some kind of common-denominator, which would be false since all people have different personalities / skills. "average computer user" is used in the same manner as "average person" or the "average child" (such as "the average child at age 10 can read X").
notJim 16y ago
This article also seems to ignore the many, many "techies"/programmers who love Apple products. As if programmers don't care about experience, and are all hardware hackers.
solipsist 16y ago
No, but those who take the time and effort to learn how to program are likely to have different views than the non-techies that don't program. Although the contrast between the views is not black-and-white, I think the article brings up a good point.

by ekidd 16y ago

tvon 16y ago

All true, but there is certainly a significant portion of the techie community that sees Apple as a company that succeeds entirely based on marketing themselves as being hip while building blingtastic stupidware for people who are unable to think for themselves. That is who this article is talking about, I gather.

jarek 16y ago
I don't see how seeing this is incompatible with the revelation that Apple sells experience.

roc 16y ago

The article is clearly talking about the subset of techies who feel it necessary to repeat themselves -- ad nauseum -- any time the word "Apple" enters their orbit. And their actual actions and discourse is easily as tiresome as the imagined annoyance from the strawman "macolytes" they conjure during their rants. Which is to say: I know exactly one type of people who unwaveringly watch what Apple is doing, opine loudly on every move they make and proclaim a singular truth and vision. They are a subset of techies and they are absolutely not Apple fanboys.

ZachPruckowski 16y ago

No, they don't become stupid. But their view of the uses of computers changes. Everyone reading this post is in the top 5% in terms of computer skill. The majority of the friends of everyone reading this post are in the top 25% in terms of computer skill. It gives a very warped perspective of the "average computer user". You know that guy who's still getting the hang of EBay and Amazon and who Googles URLs instead of typing them? He's the average computer user[1]. Which means half of all computer users are less capable than him. For instance, consider the sentence "Angry Birds is lots of fun - you should get it from their website, they take paypal"[2]. To HNers that's incredibly straightforward and simple - (1) Google "Angry Birds", (2) make sure it's a legit site, (3) look for the "Buy" button, (4) check out, (5) enter your paypal information, and (6) install the game. To me (and most HNers, I'd imagine), the hardest part of that is "what was my PayPal password again?", but to the average computer user, that's a confusing 30 minutes, part of which will be spent on an ornithology site. It's for that average user that things like the Mac App Store and locked-down phones were designed. The point of this long, meandering post is that the reason techies have issues analyzing Apple's strategy is because they mis-over-estimate the skill of the average computer user, for the totally understandable reason that they're surrounded by people with well-above-average computer skills. [1] - Probably hyperbole, but not by much. [2] - I've actually never played Angry Birds.

bad_user 16y ago
Everyone reading this post is in the top 5% in terms of computer skill Yeah, pat yourself on the back, you're smart. who's still getting the hang of EBay and Amazon, who Googles URLs instead of typing them Never used EBay, never bought anything from Amazon and I also Google for URLs from time to time ... pretty sweat if you can't remember the exact string. techies ... mis-over-estimate the skill of the average computer user I actually think we underestimate the "average" computer user more often than not. Apple's products are not idiot proof. The iPhone itself does take some time before you become productive with it. But they make the learning process fun and they respect their customers enough to not make them feel like idiots. Also, there is no such thing as an "average" computer user, as that would mean some kind of common-denominator, which would be false since all people have different personalities / skills. I've actually never played Angry Birds. The game is free of charge in the Android market. Search for it and click install.
- calloc 16y ago
  > Yeah, pat yourself on the back, you're smart. He put you into that same category ... > Never used EBay, never bought anything from Amazon and I also Google for URLs from time to time ... pretty sweat if you can't remember the exact string. He is referring to people that type "facebook" into google to go Facebook.com. He is making a generalised statement. Generally to present an argument or point it is okay to make generalised statements to help bring a point across. > I actually think we underestimate the "average" computer user more often than not. I tend to overestimate them, to each their own. Who are you qualifying as "we" here anyhow? Clearly I don't belong in your "we". > Apple's products are not idiot proof. The iPhone itself does take some time before you become productive with it. But they make the learning process fun and they respect their customers enough to not make them feel like idiots. No, not idiot proof but they are easy enough to pick up and start using by just playing, click on options, turn stuff on and off, download new apps to play with, hit the home button and back you are in familiar territory. The same could not be said for some other pieces of software. It took me a while to figure out how the Zune worked for instance, it wasn't intuitive like my iPod was. > Also, there is no such thing as an "average" computer user, as that would mean some kind of common-denominator, which would be false since all people have different personalities / skills. "average computer user" is used in the same manner as "average person" or the "average child" (such as "the average child at age 10 can read X").

notJim 16y ago

This article also seems to ignore the many, many "techies"/programmers who love Apple products. As if programmers don't care about experience, and are all hardware hackers.

solipsist 16y ago

No, but those who take the time and effort to learn how to program are likely to have different views than the non-techies that don't program. Although the contrast between the views is not black-and-white, I think the article brings up a good point.