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Techies don't understand what business Apple is in
- dedward 16y agoJust a side note about those weird screws. When dealing with consumer wifi gear, the FCC required that we use non-standard antenna connectors, for instance - to prevent people from just putting whatever they wanted on there. This wasn't specifically to prevent tampering, but to make it evident that, from our point of view as a company, we do not intend or encourage people to just open it up and mess with it.
- trotsky 16y agoIs there something more to that story? I have plenty of consumer wifi gear (<$50 routers, <$20 usb adapters) that have 100% standard antenna connectors. In fact, I don't have a piece of consumer radio gear that has a non-standard antenna connector.
- wmf 16y agoThe FCC requirements about non-user-modifiable equipment are vague, so some people interpreted them to mean non-standard connectors and others interpreted them to mean simply not telling the customer about non-compliant antennas.
- klochner 16y agoWe understand, it just annoys us.
- locopati 16y agoThank you for a good laugh on a Friday afternoon in cubicle-land
- Locke1689 16y agoWhy? Why do all companies have to operate the way you want them to and why do you have to buy their things?
- Locke1689 16y agoOK, to the two people who have downmodded my post, please clarify. This is a serious question: I don't understand why people who don't buy Apple products complain about Apple. It's not like they completely control the marketplace -- so what's the point (other than whining)?
- glhaynes 16y agoI concur. If anything, they provide tremendous innovation that then can be copied in more open ways. If not for the iPhone, there's no way the rest of the cell phone marketplace would look like it does right now.
- orangecat 16y agoIt's not like they completely control the marketplace A year ago it was a real possibility that they would dominate mobile computing (soon to be just "computing"), and even today it's not out of the question if Android lawsuits go badly. I and plenty of others don't want to see a world where we're denied control of "our" hardware, and told we're criminals if we try to reclaim it.
- bphogan 16y agoI was under the impression that, at least in the US, it was now legal to jailbreak your hardware. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ytech_wguy/ytech_wguy_tc3236 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ytech_wguy/ytech_wguy_tc3236 Did something change?
- orangecat 16y agoIt's not a DMCA violation, but it does violate the EULA, the legal ramifications of which are unclear. And of course it also voids your warranty.
- rst 16y ago"Apple doesn't sell computers"? The iPhones and iPods are arguably consumer appliances, but they aren't out of the Macintosh business yet.
- tptacek 16y agoApple still sells computers like GE still sells light bulbs. In the meantime, Apple themselves announced the shift to consumer electronics when they changed the name of the company 3 years ago.
- ajl2011 16y agotl;dl another apple experience fluff piece circa 2007.
- solus 16y agoEven though the author has a valid point on what Apple is selling, there is no reason besides a completely selfish one on Apple's part for them to disable features and discourage customization. They should be able deliver everything the article mentions as their strengths while not disheartening power users if they tried.
- absconditus 16y agoSo where is the company doing this?
- burgerbrain 16y agoIs it cold under that rock?
- tptacek 16y agoCompanies are selfish. They operate to serve the long term best interests of shareholders.
- ekidd 16y agoPeople don't suddenly become stupid when they learn how to program. Plenty of "techies" can analyze Apple's strategy just fine. Similarly, being a non-"techie" does not automatically bless you with deep understanding of what Apple's doing.
- tvon 16y agoAll true, but there is certainly a significant portion of the techie community that sees Apple as a company that succeeds entirely based on marketing themselves as being hip while building blingtastic stupidware for people who are unable to think for themselves. That is who this article is talking about, I gather.
- jarek 16y agoI don't see how seeing this is incompatible with the revelation that Apple sells experience.
- roc 16y agoThe article is clearly talking about the subset of techies who feel it necessary to repeat themselves -- ad nauseum -- any time the word "Apple" enters their orbit. And their actual actions and discourse is easily as tiresome as the imagined annoyance from the strawman "macolytes" they conjure during their rants. Which is to say: I know exactly one type of people who unwaveringly watch what Apple is doing, opine loudly on every move they make and proclaim a singular truth and vision. They are a subset of techies and they are absolutely not Apple fanboys.
- ZachPruckowski 16y agoNo, they don't become stupid. But their view of the uses of computers changes. Everyone reading this post is in the top 5% in terms of computer skill. The majority of the friends of everyone reading this post are in the top 25% in terms of computer skill. It gives a very warped perspective of the "average computer user". You know that guy who's still getting the hang of EBay and Amazon and who Googles URLs instead of typing them? He's the average computer user[1]. Which means half of all computer users are less capable than him. For instance, consider the sentence "Angry Birds is lots of fun - you should get it from their website, they take paypal"[2]. To HNers that's incredibly straightforward and simple - (1) Google "Angry Birds", (2) make sure it's a legit site, (3) look for the "Buy" button, (4) check out, (5) enter your paypal information, and (6) install the game. To me (and most HNers, I'd imagine), the hardest part of that is "what was my PayPal password again?", but to the average computer user, that's a confusing 30 minutes, part of which will be spent on an ornithology site. It's for that average user that things like the Mac App Store and locked-down phones were designed. The point of this long, meandering post is that the reason techies have issues analyzing Apple's strategy is because they mis-over-estimate the skill of the average computer user, for the totally understandable reason that they're surrounded by people with well-above-average computer skills. [1] - Probably hyperbole, but not by much. [2] - I've actually never played Angry Birds.
- orangecat 16y agothe original Macintoshes were every bit as resistant to consumer meddling and “improvement” as the iPhone 4 Until the iPhone, Apple never tried to stop you from running whatever software you wanted on your hardware, nor did they accuse you of being a criminal for doing so.
- Herring 16y agoWell it's about time someone tried it. Computers have been failing the 99% rest of the market for a long time now. I'm a GPL advocate, but I'd argue the problem Apple is tackling is more important.
- Tichy 16y agoLinux package managers solved the problem long before Apple's App store.
- ddagradi 16y agoAnd I hear this is the year of Linux on the desktop too
- gloob 16y agoForgive me if I'm being dense, but in what way is "I can be snarky!" a response to "Apple weren't exactly the first people to pursue this basic idea"?
- Herring 16y agoPackage managers dont tackle the same issues Apple does. They're not user-friendly & as a result havent been very influential.
- ugh 16y agoYou are funny! (To add a bit more detail: Package managers are awesome but not in any way easy to understand. They are more elegant than other methods of installing software but not easy.)
- brudgers 16y ago>"But what they really sell is an experience: consistency and ease-of-use, and working right out of the box, combined with solid and thoughtful industrial design and user interface" What Apple really sells expectations, because actual experience only comes after the money changes hands. It's unfulfilled expectations which frustrate the subset of hackers mentioned in the article. Those expectations are in no small part legitimate. Apple thrives off the mythology of changing the world via the power of the individual...even while the prize is a passive consumption.
- maukdaddy 16y agoYou just proved the article correct.
- brudgers 16y agoConsider the current iPad TV ads which show a medical app displaying vital statistics. That segment conveys the idea that the iPad can be adapted to interface with medical devices. It implies a hackablity and flexibility which isn't really accessible to the end user in the sort of setting where such an application would be useful.
- mikeklaas 16y agoThe ipad has a wireless interface that an app can use to transit arbitrary strings of data. This can be used to interface with medical devices, among other uses.
- maukdaddy 16y agoIt doesn't imply Hackability at all. You are projecting your tech knowledge into hackability. The commercial is demonstrating that a medical app runs on the iPad.
- brudgers 16y agoThe commercial doesn't repeatedly flash "iPad Runs..." or "iPad does..." Instead, the theme is the existential (and grammatically incomplete) "iPad is..." encouraging the viewer to complete the subject. Structured such that the viewer will project their own goals and desires onto the object, it intends to instill the belief that each unique idea can be brought to fruition by the device. In other words, even such biased completions as "[The] iPad is an energy conversion device" are an valid and grammatically correct. Anything which pops into the viewers mind works within the pattern by marketing intent. As the article points out, Apple's actions are along the lines of "We don't like people like you." The hurt to hackers when their expectations are unfulfilled by Apple may not be so much technical as social. The disappointment is not, "These damn screws," but rather "Hey, I thought you said I was cool."
- Gibbon 16y agoThere's a book I read long ago, whose title I've forgotten, that argued all companies compete along five axes: Price, Quality, Experience, Access and Service. Every company dominates one axis, excels at another and is at par with the rest. One might argue that Apple dominates in the experience category and is above average in service with everything else more or less at par with the competition. But they certainly don't sell experience.. they sell computers, mmkay?
- ZachPruckowski 16y agoThey definitely sell experience. The average user mostly wants[1] (1) email, (2) Facebook, (3) iTunes, (4) web surfing, and they don't really care about how the box on their desk gets their emails, whether it's open source or closed source, locked down or modifiable, or even if it's electronic or just really fast carrier pigeons. Like the article said, the average user wants toast, not a toaster. [1] - it's starting to look like we can add internet video to this list.
- oemera 16y agoWait. Never saw a developer with a Mac? I surely know more developers who own a Mac than any web-facebook-itunes-email guys. Talk to some Rails developers, I will bet my nuts that none of the experts, ninjas, you name it are developing on a Mac.
- ZachPruckowski 16y agoI said "the average user", not "all Mac users". It's the same thing with PCs - the 90% of people who aren't experts or ninjas or developers are web-itunes-facebook-email people. You may not know many of them, but that's a result of your professional and social circles. Apple doesn't sell millions of computers every quarter to Rails developers, it sells them to 90%-ers. Sure, some developers buy them, but they're not the main market.
- alxp 16y ago
- klync 16y agoCan I get my nickel, please? I was promised one every time the phrase "they're selling an /experience/" was uttered.
- stcredzero 16y agoApp makers should heed this message: You are in the experience business.
- oemera 16y agoI think this true cause everytime people are asking my why I use a overpriced machine they are arguing with something like this "Oh what a big deal my 300-dollar-netbook can do that too" and I say yes it can do it but not in the same way and with the same experience. I mean this is saying something like: I could watch a great movie in IMAX 3D which would cost 16 bucks or I could just watch a mambo-cambo movie which will cost just 5 bucks. Saying that boths are movies is true but not the point. We are not going to the cinema cause we want to go to the cinema, no we are going to the cinema cause we want to watch a great movie, right?
- shaggy 16y agoIn my opinion Apple is the best marketing company out there and they just happen to sell (mostly) consumer level computing and entertainment devices.
- jpr 16y agoRelevant: Non-Apple’s Mistake http://www.loper-os.org/?p=132 http://www.loper-os.org/?p=132
- lotusleaf1987 16y agoOh please, it's not just the experience it's everything: the hardware, software, UI, materials, industrial design, aesthetics, and peace of mind. Apple has become a 'trustworthy' company in a marketplace of untrustworthy corporations. By that I mean, if you by an iPod/iPhone/Macbook you know beyond any doubt you will get software updates, that if a problem occurs there is a reasonably easy way to fix it, that the materials and hardware (this includes the case and hinges) will be superior to what else is available. Why would someone by a Creative mp3 player or Archos when there is no guarantee the company will stay in business or that the company will ever bother updating the software. Samsung is in the business of selling phones, not building a software platform. So again, why would I buy a phone that costs as much or more for as an iPhone but may never again be updating? Think about it, how many different types of laptops does Dell of HP or Toshiba sell? It's absurd. It's like the difference between the GM when there was Pontiac, Oldsmobile, Buick, and Saturn. There were just too many overlapping products that confused their customers. They (GM, Dell, HP, et al) spread themselves too thin. Look at who ended up doing well: those companies who narrowed their product scope down: BMW, Honda, Acura, Scion. Maybe companies need to think about staying ahead of Apple instead of just playing catch up. Apple isn't just selling an experience, it's selling security and peace of mind.
- lancewiggs 16y agoEverything you just mentioned can be summed up by the word experience. The customer experience Apple delivers is the sum of all of the different ways that we interact with the company's products, from hearing about them, shopping using and disposing. Marketing sums all this up in the oft-misued word 'Brand', which is the sum of the experiences we have with a product or company.
- pyre 16y ago> Why would someone by [sic] a <company> or <company> mp3 > player when there is no guarantee the company will stay > in business So Apple is the only company that is guaranteed to say in business? Then why don't more people buy Microsoft mp3 players? If we assume your claim that Apple is guaranteed to stay in business, then we also have to accept the possibility that Apple being the dominant player in the mp3 player is what is driving the other companies out of business. In other words, the fact that people are buying Apple mp3 players instead of other brands is the only reason that Apple is guaranteed to be in business while the other companies (according to you) could go under at any moment. This seems like a feedback cycle to me, and this probably has less to do with the quality of Apple products than it does with feedback cycle itself. tl;dr If Apple is 'guaranteed' to stay in business while others could fail at any moment, then it has more to do with a feedback cycle of people buying Apple products than it does with the quality of Apple products. You're also not realizing that (as far as the iPhone is concerned), most people get new phones every 2 years (in the US at least) because they just pay the subsidized price when they sign a new contract.
- emehrkay 16y agoI'm a "techie," the kind that dabbles in various areas of software development and I'd choose an Apple computer before any other to do my dabbling with.
- mbesto 16y agoApple is just like Starbucks. Starbucks doesn't sell coffee, it sells a user experience.
- stevenj 16y agoMany techies are familiar with fast food; particularly pizza. You pick up your phone and dial the pizza place. [1] You tell them whether you want pepperoni, supreme, or cheese, etc. You tell them the type of crust and quantity. They may ask you if you'd like any of their side options -- soda, salad, wings, breadsticks, etc. You answer them. They tell you the total price and you both hangup. Then some "magic" happens. And about 30 minutes later your doorbell rings. You get excited because you're really hungry! Afterall, you've been busy hacking and didn't have time or want to spend energy thinking about food. You just want to get back to hacking. Most people want technology to work like this. They're not interested in hacking. They're at the movies, shopping, playing sports, at bars, raising kids, etc. "Normal" life stuff. And if you offer a better experience, perhaps by making an especially delicious pizza, or by delivering it faster, even better. You can also probably charge more for it then, too. Most of the time Pizza and Apple products "just work". And it so happens that there's a significant market that wants (and is willing to pay) for things that "just work". [1] Or you order online because it's a better experience -- you can focus your energy on what you want.
- beefman 16y agoNo, we get it. Non-techies don't understand the importance of literacy: http://min.us/mvfKzrP http://min.us/mvfKzrP