4 ms·

The OpenBSD developers are not too thrilled to hear about these sorts of issues, but looks like sysupgrade installed sets I didn't have before (x*66.tgz, game66

The OpenBSD developers are not too thrilled to hear about these sorts of issues, but looks like sysupgrade installed sets I didn't have before (x*66.tgz, game66.tgz).

chousuke 7y ago
It does that. You can hack the script to only install partial sets, but you're encouraged to install all the sets. I've seen at least one mention on the mailing list about merging the sets because the recommendation is to always install all of them anyway. They're just files on disk if you're not using them.
- tulluk 7y ago
  Instead of hacking the script, you can run it with -n. You can then edit /auto_uograde.conf before reboot to instruct the installer to only install the desired sets. As noted elsewhere, the developers recommend installing all sets. I personally prefer to avoid installing the X sets on servers.
ectospheno 7y ago
I suppose you could just keep posting this until they follow through with their idea of having only one set to prevent people like you from complaining about this non issue. Or do you think being passive aggressive on hacker news is going to change their collective, long held stance on this issue?
- sigjuice 7y ago
  No, what will happen is that sooner rather than later “people like you” will kill my casual interest in this stuff with personal attacks.
  - jakeogh 7y ago
    fyi portage has INSTALL_MASK: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_Without_systemd#systemd_unit_files https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_Without_systemd#systemd_...
pnako 7y ago
OpenBSD developers have not really made it official but basically you're supposed to install them all. Theo has hinted at merging them before. syspatch(8) also assumed them to be installed IIRC.
- kelp 7y ago
  for one of Theo's recent hints see: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=156932725121978&w=2 https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=156932725121978&w=2
  - efiecho 7y ago
    Why ruin it for the majority because a few doesn't known what they are doing? I know the argument is that everyone has the disk space these days, but I still don't like to install the entire X window system, compilers etc. for a small embedded system. What's next, force install of Libreoffice and Firefox because a few desktop users can't use the package manager?
    - kelp 7y ago
      The thing I realized about OpenBSD is it’s made by and for the developers. They are going to do what works for them and fits their priorities. Not what works for the widest possible audience.
      - efiecho 7y ago
        Yes and I agree with 99% of all the things they do, and appreciate them, but the thing with threating to merge all file sets because the few people non-deliberately choosing the non-default case are tripping over their incorrectly tied shoelaces too much. why not just ignore those few people and not force X window system binaries on thousands of network equipment?
kelp 7y ago
If you hadn't seen it, you may find this recent discussion about sysupgrade informative: https://marc.info/?t=156851721400002&r=1&w=2 https://marc.info/?t=156851721400002&r=1&w=2 And yeah, you're right, even light criticism on the OpenBSD lists is met with a very strong and negative reaction. That said, I think improvement suggestions that come with a diff and a constructive attitude are generally well received. Also sysupgrade is a pretty brief ksh script, so fairly easy to see what it's doing.
asveikau 7y ago
In the 90s disks were smaller and it might have made more sense to exclude compilers or exclude X. I used to not put X on headless machines. But today disk space is big and cheap.
- smittywerben 7y ago
  Why would they merge X before the text games? I hope they're real complaints and not i.e. we need install menu changed from "install xserver [x]" to "how u liek the xserver? now[ ] never[ ] now with extra firefox, please[x]"
  - asveikau 7y ago
    It is completely unimaginable for OpenBSD to have Firefox in the base system. This is a very big misunderstanding of what goes in base vs. ports tree. Even with all the sets, the OpenBSD system without any ports is small compared to, say, a typical Linux distro.

The OpenBSD developers are not too thrilled to hear about these sorts of issues, but looks like sysupgrade installed sets I didn't have before (x*66.tgz, game66.tgz).

chousuke 7y ago

It does that. You can hack the script to only install partial sets, but you're encouraged to install all the sets. I've seen at least one mention on the mailing list about merging the sets because the recommendation is to always install all of them anyway. They're just files on disk if you're not using them.

tulluk 7y ago
Instead of hacking the script, you can run it with -n. You can then edit /auto_uograde.conf before reboot to instruct the installer to only install the desired sets. As noted elsewhere, the developers recommend installing all sets. I personally prefer to avoid installing the X sets on servers.

ectospheno 7y ago

I suppose you could just keep posting this until they follow through with their idea of having only one set to prevent people like you from complaining about this non issue. Or do you think being passive aggressive on hacker news is going to change their collective, long held stance on this issue?

sigjuice 7y ago
No, what will happen is that sooner rather than later “people like you” will kill my casual interest in this stuff with personal attacks.
- jakeogh 7y ago
  fyi portage has INSTALL_MASK: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_Without_systemd#systemd_unit_files https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Gentoo_Without_systemd#systemd_...

pnako 7y ago

OpenBSD developers have not really made it official but basically you're supposed to install them all. Theo has hinted at merging them before. syspatch(8) also assumed them to be installed IIRC.

kelp 7y ago
for one of Theo's recent hints see: https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=156932725121978&w=2 https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=156932725121978&w=2
- efiecho 7y ago
  Why ruin it for the majority because a few doesn't known what they are doing? I know the argument is that everyone has the disk space these days, but I still don't like to install the entire X window system, compilers etc. for a small embedded system. What's next, force install of Libreoffice and Firefox because a few desktop users can't use the package manager?
  - kelp 7y ago
    The thing I realized about OpenBSD is it’s made by and for the developers. They are going to do what works for them and fits their priorities. Not what works for the widest possible audience.
    - efiecho 7y ago
      Yes and I agree with 99% of all the things they do, and appreciate them, but the thing with threating to merge all file sets because the few people non-deliberately choosing the non-default case are tripping over their incorrectly tied shoelaces too much. why not just ignore those few people and not force X window system binaries on thousands of network equipment?

kelp 7y ago

If you hadn't seen it, you may find this recent discussion about sysupgrade informative: https://marc.info/?t=156851721400002&r=1&w=2 https://marc.info/?t=156851721400002&r=1&w=2 And yeah, you're right, even light criticism on the OpenBSD lists is met with a very strong and negative reaction. That said, I think improvement suggestions that come with a diff and a constructive attitude are generally well received. Also sysupgrade is a pretty brief ksh script, so fairly easy to see what it's doing.

asveikau 7y ago

In the 90s disks were smaller and it might have made more sense to exclude compilers or exclude X. I used to not put X on headless machines. But today disk space is big and cheap.

smittywerben 7y ago
Why would they merge X before the text games? I hope they're real complaints and not i.e. we need install menu changed from "install xserver [x]" to "how u liek the xserver? now[ ] never[ ] now with extra firefox, please[x]"
- asveikau 7y ago
  It is completely unimaginable for OpenBSD to have Firefox in the base system. This is a very big misunderstanding of what goes in base vs. ports tree. Even with all the sets, the OpenBSD system without any ports is small compared to, say, a typical Linux distro.