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I'm excited that they got investment to build an Android version - I plan to be an early customer. A couple of things, though: >> write legal letters to scare
by TallGuyShort 7y ago
I'm excited that they got investment to build an Android version - I plan to be an early customer. A couple of things, though:
>> write legal letters to scare businesses out of overcharging you
This one actually concerns me a little. A lot of businesses use legalese to scare and overwhelm you, so it's great to have something to fight back. But there are also a lot of people out there who just game the system as consumers too - I'm a little concerned for Mom & Pop shops who will just end up being the victims here instead. Ultimately I don't think there's a perfect solution to the fact that dishonest, selfish people exist.
>> they’ll think ‘this could be made public and go viral and hurt our business
This might play out in a more complicated way. I have an app that records all my calls. I stop the recording immediately if it's a personal call. If it's a business I inform them I'm recording the phone call. Much of the time, that ends the call. The business was going to record it too, but now that they know I'm going to record it, they tell me they'll have to end the call and schedule a time to call back when neither of us records it, which I refuse to do, so I take care of business in writing, often in-person instead. Instead of making my over-the-phone business more confident, it just eliminates the phone as an option.
- ryandrake 7y ago> If it's a business I inform them I'm recording the phone call. Much of the time, that ends the call. The business was going to record it too, but now that they know I'm going to record it, they tell me they'll have to end the call and schedule a time to call back when neither of us records it Why go out of the way to inform them? Whenever I hear “this call may be monitored or recorded,” I figure I’m being given clear consent to record the call in a two-party consent State.
- TallGuyShort 7y agoWell I don't always, actually - I actually had an argument with someone on HN one time who was suggesting that if I didn't tell them I was violating two-party consent even if they said the words "this call may be recorded". But I digress... When I do tell them, it's because I'm trying to achieve what is said in the article: I'm trying to disincentivize the bad behavior from happening in the first place. I want to cut the bullshit out immediately, not just be well-armed to shame them or take them to court later.
- gnicholas 7y agoI have wondered about this also. The employee has given consent for their employer to record them, but does that automatically mean they've consented to being recorded by the caller? I don't know that this is true, and it could depend by state. Regardless, I can't imagine a jury ever finding anyone guilty of breaking the law for doing this (if a company had the nerve to press charges). More relevantly, I would think that judges would be generous in allowing the recording as evidence in a civil suit, where there is discretion. And I'd imagine that in most states there would be room for judicial interpretation, since it's unlikely that a state has a specific law or appellate case that addresses this issue.
- TallGuyShort 7y agoMy take on it is actually that the phrasing they all use, "this call may be recorded" never specifies ONLY BY THEM. It's very reasonable to interpret that as "you may (also) record this". Like them, I'm also recording it for "quality assurance purposes" - to assure that they provide me quality, honest service. But see my other comment for why I bother telling them sometimes anyway...
- ryandrake 7y ago> The employee has given consent for their employer to record them, but does that automatically mean they've consented to being recorded by the caller? The message played at you doesn’t say anything about employer or employee. It simply says “this call may be recorded” so, great, then I can record it!
- pavel_lishin 7y ago> Instead of making my over-the-phone business more confident, it just eliminates the phone as an option. Sounds great!
- ijpoijpoihpiuoh 7y agoIt sounds great to have to go in to the branch office to conduct banking business that can't be handled on the website?
- rebuilder 7y agoWell, quite possibly! What is the set of things you can't handle on the website, but are comfortable doing over the phone?
- pavel_lishin 7y agoIt sounds great to not have to conduct any sort of business over the phone.
- tombrossman 7y agoCurious, what call recording app do you use now please, and does it properly record full duplex audio from the line (so not using speaker/headset/other workarounds)? The last time I had this working perfectly was with a Nexus 4 and I find that call recording apps do not work on newer phones I've bought since. Any suggestions? Android or iOS, I don't care which platform as long as it works well. I used to set the app to only record incoming calls from callers not in my address book, and on several occasions it was a huge benefit to have these to refer to later. Companies really do not like it when you email them recordings of their employee lying to you, and will go out of their way to make things right immediately when that happens.
- ikeboy 7y agoI did this once with Chase and didn't get anywhere. Had a CFPB case opened and they refused to budge. I had called multiple times and was told that their QuickPay was irreversible and that it was fine to use it for commercial transactions. I accepted it for a transaction, the transaction got reversed and money taken out of my account and I was charged overdraft fees. Submitting the audio recording did not make a difference.
- tombrossman 7y agoThat's a shame, what was their explanation? Did they say it's OK for Chase employees to lie to customers, or did they dispute the authenticity of your recording? There's probably something in the fine print of your contract with them that lets them get away with whatever happened, but always escalate matters as it's pretty effective. Press them on social media, if there's arbitration try it or small claims court, and involve any local media or politicians that you can get on your side. Basically, just be a huge pain in the ass and do not give up or go away until they back down. This can take a while and you must document everything, every interaction.
- ikeboy 7y agoThey supposedly couldn't play the audio file. Looking back I probably should have transcribed it and highlighted the relevant parts to show the issue more clearly.
- ikeboy 7y agoWhat app works well for recording without hurting audio quality or lag? I'm happy to pay for something that just works; the free ones I've tried suffer from quality/lag/glitchy issues.