5 ms·

Do you own a cell phone?

by tantalor 7y ago

dna_polymerase 7y ago
Having a cell phone does not invalidate their legitimate critique.
- davinic 7y ago
  Of course not, but phrasing it in this way (that phones are a separate exception) minimizes the legitimate critiques of always-listening cellphone privacy.
  - ntsplnkv2 7y ago
    Phones solve many more problems though. I'm willing to make some sacrifice so that I can get GPS/maps anywhere I go, ability to make emergency phone calls, etc. Smart speakers really don't have the same value add.
- okmokmz 7y ago
  Apparently on this site it does. I had a conversation where I made a joke about Alexa glasses spying on us all in public instead of just in the privacy of people's homes now and got downvoted to oblivion because apparently you aren't allowed to care about privacy if you own a phone. The amount of whataboutisms on this site where people try to invalidate others opinions or critiques is incredible and makes it very difficult to have any kind of genuine discussion. I imagine it's partially because there are plenty of Google/Facebook/Amazon employees on this site so it's in their best interest to shut down any pro-privacy discussion
- authoritarian 7y ago
  Apparently on this site it does. I had a conversation where I made a joke about Alexa glasses spying on us all in public instead of just in the privacy of people's homes now and got downvoted to oblivion because apparently you aren't allowed to care about privacy if you own a phone. The amount of whataboutisms on this site where people try to invalidate others opinions or critiques is incredible and makes it very difficult to have any kind of genuine discussion. I imagine it's partially because there are plenty of Google/Facebook/Amazon employees on this site so it's in their best interest to shut down any pro-privacy discussion
melling 7y ago
He mentions that he does. The thing is everyone has a cellphone, even many kids. Invite half a dozen people over and you’ll get half a dozen cellphones. I have a couple of Amazon Echos, plus iOS devices that occasionally activate Siri for no reason. I love them. My feeling is that I’m willing to live with it for now. Hopefully, a decade from now, voice technology is perfected and more is done on device.
- throwaway2048 7y ago
  There is never going to come a day when any of these companies give you more control over your devices. Why would they? Thats their entire competitive advantage.
  - melling 7y ago
    The Pixel 4 does speech to text on device. They do it because it's faster. Once it becomes a solved problem, there will be better open source devices and more competition. On device will be a checkbox feature. Not every company makes you the product.
    - serf 7y ago
      >Not every company makes you the product. yeah, but since that has been a workable angle we'd had an explosion of companies that do make you the product. I wouldn't assume the inverse over time related to a reduction in effort from better devices and competition; i'd assume further growth.
saluki 7y ago
of course I do, it's alluded to in my comment: "(beyond what smartphones are already capable of)" I agree, smart phones provide the same surveillance capabilities of 'smart' speakers and more. But supposedly phones aren't always on and listening to all your audio like the 'smart' speakers. This might just be a divide in society, some people accept surveillance as not an issue and are fine with it. Would you place a similar 'smart' speaker device in your home if the government suddenly required it? I just feel a surveillance state is detrimental to freedom and democracy, the freedom we have in the states is not common. If you look back in history and even around the world today it's pretty rare. I just want to make sure we aren't setting ourselves up to weaken it or even lose it.
- streb-lo 7y ago
  > But supposedly phones aren't always on and listening to all your audio like the 'smart' speakers. New phones are. Also, AFAIK, Alexa et al. are only sending traffic home after the wake word is heard. I believe this has been confirmed via wireshark.
  - saluki 7y ago
    That's true a phone has 'smart' speaker features. It seems 'smart' speakers wake more easily than Siri. We hadn't been hearing news stories about FANG employees listening to/reviewing conversations intimate moments until the 'smart' speakers were deployed. I expect this could have been going on with Siri as well though. I'm open to using a 'smart' speaker in the future, there might not be any reason for concern. Currently it just seems like a bad idea to add recording devices you don't control around your home.
    - scatters 7y ago
      > We hadn't been hearing news stories about FANG employees listening to/reviewing conversations intimate moments until the 'smart' speakers were deployed. That just shows that the media didn't think those stories would sell.
  - skrause 7y ago

Do you own a cell phone?

dna_polymerase 7y ago

Having a cell phone does not invalidate their legitimate critique.

davinic 7y ago
Of course not, but phrasing it in this way (that phones are a separate exception) minimizes the legitimate critiques of always-listening cellphone privacy.
- ntsplnkv2 7y ago
  Phones solve many more problems though. I'm willing to make some sacrifice so that I can get GPS/maps anywhere I go, ability to make emergency phone calls, etc. Smart speakers really don't have the same value add.
okmokmz 7y ago
Apparently on this site it does. I had a conversation where I made a joke about Alexa glasses spying on us all in public instead of just in the privacy of people's homes now and got downvoted to oblivion because apparently you aren't allowed to care about privacy if you own a phone. The amount of whataboutisms on this site where people try to invalidate others opinions or critiques is incredible and makes it very difficult to have any kind of genuine discussion. I imagine it's partially because there are plenty of Google/Facebook/Amazon employees on this site so it's in their best interest to shut down any pro-privacy discussion
authoritarian 7y ago
Apparently on this site it does. I had a conversation where I made a joke about Alexa glasses spying on us all in public instead of just in the privacy of people's homes now and got downvoted to oblivion because apparently you aren't allowed to care about privacy if you own a phone. The amount of whataboutisms on this site where people try to invalidate others opinions or critiques is incredible and makes it very difficult to have any kind of genuine discussion. I imagine it's partially because there are plenty of Google/Facebook/Amazon employees on this site so it's in their best interest to shut down any pro-privacy discussion

melling 7y ago

He mentions that he does. The thing is everyone has a cellphone, even many kids. Invite half a dozen people over and you’ll get half a dozen cellphones. I have a couple of Amazon Echos, plus iOS devices that occasionally activate Siri for no reason. I love them. My feeling is that I’m willing to live with it for now. Hopefully, a decade from now, voice technology is perfected and more is done on device.

throwaway2048 7y ago
There is never going to come a day when any of these companies give you more control over your devices. Why would they? Thats their entire competitive advantage.
- melling 7y ago
  The Pixel 4 does speech to text on device. They do it because it's faster. Once it becomes a solved problem, there will be better open source devices and more competition. On device will be a checkbox feature. Not every company makes you the product.
  - serf 7y ago
    >Not every company makes you the product. yeah, but since that has been a workable angle we'd had an explosion of companies that do make you the product. I wouldn't assume the inverse over time related to a reduction in effort from better devices and competition; i'd assume further growth.

saluki 7y ago

of course I do, it's alluded to in my comment: "(beyond what smartphones are already capable of)" I agree, smart phones provide the same surveillance capabilities of 'smart' speakers and more. But supposedly phones aren't always on and listening to all your audio like the 'smart' speakers. This might just be a divide in society, some people accept surveillance as not an issue and are fine with it. Would you place a similar 'smart' speaker device in your home if the government suddenly required it? I just feel a surveillance state is detrimental to freedom and democracy, the freedom we have in the states is not common. If you look back in history and even around the world today it's pretty rare. I just want to make sure we aren't setting ourselves up to weaken it or even lose it.

streb-lo 7y ago
> But supposedly phones aren't always on and listening to all your audio like the 'smart' speakers. New phones are. Also, AFAIK, Alexa et al. are only sending traffic home after the wake word is heard. I believe this has been confirmed via wireshark.
- saluki 7y ago
  That's true a phone has 'smart' speaker features. It seems 'smart' speakers wake more easily than Siri. We hadn't been hearing news stories about FANG employees listening to/reviewing conversations intimate moments until the 'smart' speakers were deployed. I expect this could have been going on with Siri as well though. I'm open to using a 'smart' speaker in the future, there might not be any reason for concern. Currently it just seems like a bad idea to add recording devices you don't control around your home.
  - scatters 7y ago
    > We hadn't been hearing news stories about FANG employees listening to/reviewing conversations intimate moments until the 'smart' speakers were deployed. That just shows that the media didn't think those stories would sell.
- skrause 7y ago