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But we've had those 25c toy machines at your local grocers forever. And places like Chuck E Cheese have always been basically Vegas for children. The concept is

But we've had those 25c toy machines at your local grocers forever. And places like Chuck E Cheese have always been basically Vegas for children. The concept isn't new, it's just mainstream. I'm still of the opinion that parents should parent instead of over-regulating this

cgearhart 7y ago
Organizing with other adults to regulate a practice that appears potentially harmful to our kids is “parenting”.
- magashna 7y ago
  They're not my parents, why do I want them meddling in my life?
  - hanniabu 7y ago
    That's kind of like saying I didn't vote for this president so why should he be doing anything that affects me
    - magashna 7y ago
      Maybe you haven't noticed, but many people are really mad about the president's actions and the unasked for effects.
      - EpicEng 7y ago
        Man, why should those people be allowed to meddle in your life? What is your point exactly?
        magashna 7y ago
        Parents should be more responsible instead of using the government as a cudgel. I don't think I've been unclear.
        EpicEng 7y ago
        As a high level statement that makes no sense. We as a society place age restrictions on all sorts of activities. You have to be specific and focus on the problem at hand.
EpicEng 7y ago
Yet back in the real world where children aren't spending hundreds of dollars to fuel their 25c toy machine addiction, parents are parenting by saying "this is bad". This also effects adults, let's not pretend this is an issue isolated to ten year olds. It makes our games _worse_ across the board.
- magashna 7y ago
  Where are these children getting hundreds of dollars? How is this different from buying baseball cards, pokemon cards, etc.? It doesn't make any games I play worse, it makes the playerbase bigger which is better.
  - EpicEng 7y ago
    >How is this different from buying baseball cards, pokemon cards, etc.? There are at least two obvious differences. First, you can't divorce the problem from reality and expect to win an argument based upon the fact that loot boxes are analogous to e.g. baseball cards. They are similar in concept, sure, but the scale is completely different. Video games are played by hundreds of millions (more?) of people around the world. If some drug came out that was extremely dangerous, but accounted for a handful of deaths each year, no one would much care. Up that number to a few hundred thousand and you'll hear about it nearly every night on the news. Obviously, scale and relevance matter. Secondly, video games are able to hit your serotonin and dopamine producing brain centers much more effectively than does a pack of baseball cards. Companies are pouring vast resources into finding ways to trick people into craving that next button click. >It doesn't make any games I play worse, it makes the playerbase bigger which is better. Yes, they do, and I'd like to see some basis for that last claim. It certainly spawns new forms of crappy, content-lite games, but it doesn't in any way increase quality. MTX's have led to a shift away from providing quality gameplay and toward maximizing roulette wheel spins. I'd be interested in hearing some specific examples of how they have made games "better". BTW, game of the year 2018: GoW. No MTX's.
    - Spivak 7y ago
      The scale isn't all that different though: Pokemon, Digimon, Yugioh, Silly Bandz were all insanely popular and operated under the same principal. If you're willing to allow the skinner box to in in-game then we have to include arcade games and pinball machines which all optimized for quarters. Another precursor was WoW in which the rewards are entirely in-game but aggressively designed with random rewards and growth to keep players paying their subscription. I lost years of my life to WoW and everyone I know who used to play it talks about like they're in recovery. Look, I think the trend of lootboxes is terrible and has made a lot of games worse but I think your argument falls flat since cash for serotonin is basically the definition of the entertainment and gaming. "High replay-ability" is basically code for how addictive a game is and people actively seek out these types of games. The thing that feels different is that in modern games you can waste money instead of just time with your addition.

cgearhart 7y ago

Organizing with other adults to regulate a practice that appears potentially harmful to our kids is “parenting”.

magashna 7y ago
They're not my parents, why do I want them meddling in my life?
- hanniabu 7y ago
  That's kind of like saying I didn't vote for this president so why should he be doing anything that affects me
  - magashna 7y ago
    Maybe you haven't noticed, but many people are really mad about the president's actions and the unasked for effects.
    - EpicEng 7y ago
      Man, why should those people be allowed to meddle in your life? What is your point exactly?
      - magashna 7y ago
        Parents should be more responsible instead of using the government as a cudgel. I don't think I've been unclear.
        EpicEng 7y ago
        As a high level statement that makes no sense. We as a society place age restrictions on all sorts of activities. You have to be specific and focus on the problem at hand.

EpicEng 7y ago

Yet back in the real world where children aren't spending hundreds of dollars to fuel their 25c toy machine addiction, parents are parenting by saying "this is bad". This also effects adults, let's not pretend this is an issue isolated to ten year olds. It makes our games _worse_ across the board.

magashna 7y ago
Where are these children getting hundreds of dollars? How is this different from buying baseball cards, pokemon cards, etc.? It doesn't make any games I play worse, it makes the playerbase bigger which is better.
- EpicEng 7y ago
  >How is this different from buying baseball cards, pokemon cards, etc.? There are at least two obvious differences. First, you can't divorce the problem from reality and expect to win an argument based upon the fact that loot boxes are analogous to e.g. baseball cards. They are similar in concept, sure, but the scale is completely different. Video games are played by hundreds of millions (more?) of people around the world. If some drug came out that was extremely dangerous, but accounted for a handful of deaths each year, no one would much care. Up that number to a few hundred thousand and you'll hear about it nearly every night on the news. Obviously, scale and relevance matter. Secondly, video games are able to hit your serotonin and dopamine producing brain centers much more effectively than does a pack of baseball cards. Companies are pouring vast resources into finding ways to trick people into craving that next button click. >It doesn't make any games I play worse, it makes the playerbase bigger which is better. Yes, they do, and I'd like to see some basis for that last claim. It certainly spawns new forms of crappy, content-lite games, but it doesn't in any way increase quality. MTX's have led to a shift away from providing quality gameplay and toward maximizing roulette wheel spins. I'd be interested in hearing some specific examples of how they have made games "better". BTW, game of the year 2018: GoW. No MTX's.
  - Spivak 7y ago
    The scale isn't all that different though: Pokemon, Digimon, Yugioh, Silly Bandz were all insanely popular and operated under the same principal. If you're willing to allow the skinner box to in in-game then we have to include arcade games and pinball machines which all optimized for quarters. Another precursor was WoW in which the rewards are entirely in-game but aggressively designed with random rewards and growth to keep players paying their subscription. I lost years of my life to WoW and everyone I know who used to play it talks about like they're in recovery. Look, I think the trend of lootboxes is terrible and has made a lot of games worse but I think your argument falls flat since cash for serotonin is basically the definition of the entertainment and gaming. "High replay-ability" is basically code for how addictive a game is and people actively seek out these types of games. The thing that feels different is that in modern games you can waste money instead of just time with your addition.