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This sounds like something a developing country would do. How about not clearing trees next to our power lines and just shut down instead, because it's easier?

This sounds like something a developing country would do. How about not clearing trees next to our power lines and just shut down instead, because it's easier? I have never heard of a power company in any developed country handling the problem like this.

pjc50 7y ago
The trick to understanding America is to realise that it's the most wealthy technologically advanced country in the world and a declining "developing" colonized nation at the same time occupying the same space with tiny fractal boundaries between the two.
gambiting 7y ago
The problem is that some states like California have decided that if a fire is started as a result of the power lines interacting with anything, even as a result of an accident/severe weather, the power company is 100% responsible for the cost of cleanup. Which of course means that for a power company, the only 100% logical decision is to shut off power any time there is a strong wind - why the hell would any company ever risk a multi-million dollar bill for putting out fires if they can just simply switch off the power for a while? They can do their dilligence and clear out any branches near the powerlines, but accidents still happen and as long as the power company is held 100% responsible financially for those I don't see how they could not shut down power during severe weather.
- badchorizo 7y ago
  The power company that got nailed with the $30 billion (or whatever it was) judgment for possibly causing a huge destructive fire is publicly traded. This matters because if shareholders had to eat that loss, it would destroy the valuation of the company and stock would plummet. Execs and board of directors get a lot of pay as stock and options, so cratering the stock isn't acceptable. So instead they passed the loss onto ratepayers i.e. innocent customers have a surcharge for decades to pay for a fire caused by utility negligence (and whether the utility did in fact cause the fire was never proven one way or the other, but it's easy to create a villain for juries to blame). We need to get a grip on our insignificance compared to natural forces. Wildfires are as inevitable as hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes, etc. Humans can't stop them, but we can be prepared to flee and/or adapt to the resulting changes to the environment. Humans dominate Earth because we make plans and we adapt to whatever the planet throws at us.
  - lacker 7y ago
    The company, PG+E, went bankrupt. The shareholders did eat a big loss. They might still be incompetent but it’s not like they’re making huge profits off this shutdown.
- beatgammit 7y ago
  The alternative option is to have competition. If customers could just switch to another power provider, PG&E would be far more interested in maintenance since it would affect long term profits. Many people would prefer a more expensive service if it was more reliable. Personally, I think we should be looking into ways to increase the resiliency of our power grid, and that involves making it possible for companies to compete in production and/or delivery.
lazyjones 7y ago
> I have never heard of a power company in any developed country handling the problem like this. The power company has declared bankruptcy and at that point it's not free to make costly business decisions as it likes.
- s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
  They had to declare bankruptcy because of how California decides to govern itself. Maybe we don't put the sole responsibility on them to prevent fires. Maybe we don't have our power grid powered by a monopoly. Maybe we have a distributor and multiple providers for the grid, like Texas.
gamblor956 7y ago
There are no power companies in the developed world with the same geography and climate conditions. Power lines in California run through natural/old growth forests that are bigger than some countries. The Westin is extremely rough and rugged. There are seasonal Gale force winds that can blow sparks and ashes dozens of miles. It's simply not environmentally or economically feasible to clear cut a sufficiently large fire safety zones around all of the power lines or to bury them underground. Due to transmission losses, it's also not yet feasible to go around the forests.

pjc50 7y ago

The trick to understanding America is to realise that it's the most wealthy technologically advanced country in the world and a declining "developing" colonized nation at the same time occupying the same space with tiny fractal boundaries between the two.

gambiting 7y ago

The problem is that some states like California have decided that if a fire is started as a result of the power lines interacting with anything, even as a result of an accident/severe weather, the power company is 100% responsible for the cost of cleanup. Which of course means that for a power company, the only 100% logical decision is to shut off power any time there is a strong wind - why the hell would any company ever risk a multi-million dollar bill for putting out fires if they can just simply switch off the power for a while? They can do their dilligence and clear out any branches near the powerlines, but accidents still happen and as long as the power company is held 100% responsible financially for those I don't see how they could not shut down power during severe weather.

badchorizo 7y ago
The power company that got nailed with the $30 billion (or whatever it was) judgment for possibly causing a huge destructive fire is publicly traded. This matters because if shareholders had to eat that loss, it would destroy the valuation of the company and stock would plummet. Execs and board of directors get a lot of pay as stock and options, so cratering the stock isn't acceptable. So instead they passed the loss onto ratepayers i.e. innocent customers have a surcharge for decades to pay for a fire caused by utility negligence (and whether the utility did in fact cause the fire was never proven one way or the other, but it's easy to create a villain for juries to blame). We need to get a grip on our insignificance compared to natural forces. Wildfires are as inevitable as hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes, etc. Humans can't stop them, but we can be prepared to flee and/or adapt to the resulting changes to the environment. Humans dominate Earth because we make plans and we adapt to whatever the planet throws at us.
- lacker 7y ago
  The company, PG+E, went bankrupt. The shareholders did eat a big loss. They might still be incompetent but it’s not like they’re making huge profits off this shutdown.
beatgammit 7y ago
The alternative option is to have competition. If customers could just switch to another power provider, PG&E would be far more interested in maintenance since it would affect long term profits. Many people would prefer a more expensive service if it was more reliable. Personally, I think we should be looking into ways to increase the resiliency of our power grid, and that involves making it possible for companies to compete in production and/or delivery.

lazyjones 7y ago

> I have never heard of a power company in any developed country handling the problem like this. The power company has declared bankruptcy and at that point it's not free to make costly business decisions as it likes.

s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
They had to declare bankruptcy because of how California decides to govern itself. Maybe we don't put the sole responsibility on them to prevent fires. Maybe we don't have our power grid powered by a monopoly. Maybe we have a distributor and multiple providers for the grid, like Texas.

gamblor956 7y ago

There are no power companies in the developed world with the same geography and climate conditions. Power lines in California run through natural/old growth forests that are bigger than some countries. The Westin is extremely rough and rugged. There are seasonal Gale force winds that can blow sparks and ashes dozens of miles. It's simply not environmentally or economically feasible to clear cut a sufficiently large fire safety zones around all of the power lines or to bury them underground. Due to transmission losses, it's also not yet feasible to go around the forests.