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nah, there's approaches. I meet with politicians and suggest a carbon tax on crypto exchange conversion to fiat - miners have to cash out, after all. You have

nah, there's approaches. I meet with politicians and suggest a carbon tax on crypto exchange conversion to fiat - miners have to cash out, after all. You have to tax the clean coins too, otherwise buyers will just exchange dirtycoin for cleancoin before cashing out.

lifty 7y ago
Why not tax or make all energy more expensive? That way all wasteful usage will be curtailed and only the valuable use cases will be left after a while. If we do what you proposed it sounds like we should start taxing other behavior on the internet based on its usefulness to society and electricity usage.
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  We definitely should tax all dirty energy, and the shifting price landscape will do a lot to fix the environmental issues we're facing. That said, it's not enough - because the market isn't some NP-complete-problem-solving magic oracle. It's just a greedy optimization algorithm. It's very prone to falling into bad local optima. We know that for a fact, that's the basis of most regulations around markets. Left unattended, the market would happily prioritize mining Bitcoin over producing food, as running Bitcoins in circles is more profitable than selling grain - up until there's an actual shortage of food and the market self-destructs.
  - reportgunner 7y ago
    Energy on it's own is not dirty or clean. You cannot test the wires in the wall to say yep, this energy is clean. You can of course tax the energy producers, but that does not prevent fraud on it's own - see oil tankers converting gas pollutants to water and causing even more harm.
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      > Energy on it's own is not dirty or clean. You cannot test the wires in the wall to say yep, this energy is clean. Yes. "Clean/dirty energy" is a shorthand for clean/dirty energy sources. > You can of course tax the energy producers, but that does not prevent fraud on it's own Sure. Taxing emissions is a necessary but not sufficient component of a sane energy policy.
      - reportgunner 7y ago
        > Yes. "Clean/dirty energy" is a shorthand for clean/dirty energy sources. So how do you make sure you are not getting dirty energy ?
        TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
        What is the purpose of this questions? You purchase electricity with clean production guarantees. That doesn't necessarily mean the electricity you use comes from that, or any, clean source, but that clean sources are used to contribute to grid supply equally. If that's not actually happening then we can call that fraud, but that's a separate issue. Are you claiming you were not aware of this?
- davidgerard 7y ago
  Do you mean instead of taking on bitcoin? Please be clear.
reportgunner 7y ago
Putting new taxes in place is not free of charge.

lifty 7y ago

Why not tax or make all energy more expensive? That way all wasteful usage will be curtailed and only the valuable use cases will be left after a while. If we do what you proposed it sounds like we should start taxing other behavior on the internet based on its usefulness to society and electricity usage.

TeMPOraL 7y ago
We definitely should tax all dirty energy, and the shifting price landscape will do a lot to fix the environmental issues we're facing. That said, it's not enough - because the market isn't some NP-complete-problem-solving magic oracle. It's just a greedy optimization algorithm. It's very prone to falling into bad local optima. We know that for a fact, that's the basis of most regulations around markets. Left unattended, the market would happily prioritize mining Bitcoin over producing food, as running Bitcoins in circles is more profitable than selling grain - up until there's an actual shortage of food and the market self-destructs.
- reportgunner 7y ago
  Energy on it's own is not dirty or clean. You cannot test the wires in the wall to say yep, this energy is clean. You can of course tax the energy producers, but that does not prevent fraud on it's own - see oil tankers converting gas pollutants to water and causing even more harm.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    > Energy on it's own is not dirty or clean. You cannot test the wires in the wall to say yep, this energy is clean. Yes. "Clean/dirty energy" is a shorthand for clean/dirty energy sources. > You can of course tax the energy producers, but that does not prevent fraud on it's own Sure. Taxing emissions is a necessary but not sufficient component of a sane energy policy.
    - reportgunner 7y ago
      > Yes. "Clean/dirty energy" is a shorthand for clean/dirty energy sources. So how do you make sure you are not getting dirty energy ?
      - TheSpiceIsLife 7y ago
        What is the purpose of this questions? You purchase electricity with clean production guarantees. That doesn't necessarily mean the electricity you use comes from that, or any, clean source, but that clean sources are used to contribute to grid supply equally. If that's not actually happening then we can call that fraud, but that's a separate issue. Are you claiming you were not aware of this?
davidgerard 7y ago
Do you mean instead of taking on bitcoin? Please be clear.

reportgunner 7y ago

Putting new taxes in place is not free of charge.