7 ms·

Why would it requiring discrimination be a problem?

will4274 7y ago
Well, employment discrimination by gender is illegal in my country.
manfredo 7y ago
Because employers in the US are legally prohibited from discriminating on the basis of sex and race. At least in theory, enforcement seems to be lax in Silicon Valley. Also, it creates a situation where people are aware that non-diverse employees are held to a more selective standard. This can increase impostor syndrome among diverse employees who may feel that they would not have been employed if they weren't of a specific gender or ethnicity.
BurningFrog 7y ago
You're asking why race and gender discrimination might be a problem?
- cloverich 7y ago
  I am asking why using discrimination (favoring women) to reverse a discrimination trend is a problem. Not why discrimination in general is a problem, which it obviously is.
  - BurningFrog 7y ago
    Thanks. I have two thoughts. 1. The position that it's OK to fight discrimination with more discrimination is very different from the idea that discrimination is inherently bad. 2. The theory that some gender differences in occupation choice are caused by discrimination is both controversial and unproven. If the difference is mainly caused by the genders having different statistical distributions of interests, you're actually using discrimination to fight peoples career choices.
    - dahart 7y ago
      > If the difference is mainly caused by the genders having different statistical distributions of interests, you're actually using discrimination to fight peoples career choices. Conversely, if genders don't have a different intrinsic, permanent distributions of interests, then not using some affirmative action to correct the situation amounts to preserving the status quo of known cultural discrimination. The problem with what you said is that we already have data, the distributions of interest have changed dramatically over time recently, and they are currently different from country to country. That's pretty clear, hard evidence that the gender differences in occupation choice we have today in the US (for example) are not intrinsic to the genders. So, what does that leave as possible causes?
      - BurningFrog 7y ago
        At most, it's evidence that intrinsic interest is not the only factor in career choice. The most fascinating fact here is that the more rich and gender equal societies become, career choices end up more "gender stereotypical"! It's easy to interpret that as when you're rich enough to pick the career that actually interests you, rather than the career most likely to keep starvation at bay, people follow their interests more.
        dahart 7y ago
        What evidence is there that there is any intrinsic difference in interest? > the more rich and gender equal societies become, career choices end up more "gender stereotypical"! What if gender stereotypical career choices is an indicator that our society is not gender equal, and that we're patting ourselves on the back prematurely? BTW, not really true that there's a correlation between gender equality metrics and stereotypical career choices. To come to that conclusion, you have to ignore some periods of time and ignore some countries in the world.
        BurningFrog 7y ago
        There is a huge amount of evidence that women and men are different statistically. That is, anyone can have any interest or personality trait, but on average the genders have separate distributions. This is very controversial among political activists, but established fact in the relevant sciences. Pinker's "The Blank Slate" is a good introduction.

Well, employment discrimination by gender is illegal in my country.

Because employers in the US are legally prohibited from discriminating on the basis of sex and race. At least in theory, enforcement seems to be lax in Silicon Valley. Also, it creates a situation where people are aware that non-diverse employees are held to a more selective standard. This can increase impostor syndrome among diverse employees who may feel that they would not have been employed if they weren't of a specific gender or ethnicity.

BurningFrog 7y ago

You're asking why race and gender discrimination might be a problem?

cloverich 7y ago
I am asking why using discrimination (favoring women) to reverse a discrimination trend is a problem. Not why discrimination in general is a problem, which it obviously is.
- BurningFrog 7y ago
  Thanks. I have two thoughts. 1. The position that it's OK to fight discrimination with more discrimination is very different from the idea that discrimination is inherently bad. 2. The theory that some gender differences in occupation choice are caused by discrimination is both controversial and unproven. If the difference is mainly caused by the genders having different statistical distributions of interests, you're actually using discrimination to fight peoples career choices.
  - dahart 7y ago
    > If the difference is mainly caused by the genders having different statistical distributions of interests, you're actually using discrimination to fight peoples career choices. Conversely, if genders don't have a different intrinsic, permanent distributions of interests, then not using some affirmative action to correct the situation amounts to preserving the status quo of known cultural discrimination. The problem with what you said is that we already have data, the distributions of interest have changed dramatically over time recently, and they are currently different from country to country. That's pretty clear, hard evidence that the gender differences in occupation choice we have today in the US (for example) are not intrinsic to the genders. So, what does that leave as possible causes?
    - BurningFrog 7y ago
      At most, it's evidence that intrinsic interest is not the only factor in career choice. The most fascinating fact here is that the more rich and gender equal societies become, career choices end up more "gender stereotypical"! It's easy to interpret that as when you're rich enough to pick the career that actually interests you, rather than the career most likely to keep starvation at bay, people follow their interests more.
      - dahart 7y ago
        What evidence is there that there is any intrinsic difference in interest? > the more rich and gender equal societies become, career choices end up more "gender stereotypical"! What if gender stereotypical career choices is an indicator that our society is not gender equal, and that we're patting ourselves on the back prematurely? BTW, not really true that there's a correlation between gender equality metrics and stereotypical career choices. To come to that conclusion, you have to ignore some periods of time and ignore some countries in the world.
        BurningFrog 7y ago
        There is a huge amount of evidence that women and men are different statistically. That is, anyone can have any interest or personality trait, but on average the genders have separate distributions. This is very controversial among political activists, but established fact in the relevant sciences. Pinker's "The Blank Slate" is a good introduction.