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Why Isn't Functional Programming the Norm? [video]

3 points by oska 7y ago

fargle 7y ago
Good presenter. Critique: I think an awful lot of the time and energy is spend analyzing the market type reasons for each language being popular. But by the time we get to supporting a thesis that OOP is less relevant, or not central, to things like C++ and Java, not enough time and energy to really bring it home. And I'm not sure I'm convinced, although it is an excellent theory. Here's what I think: The dichotomy exposed in essays like https://blog.codinghorror.com/separating-programming-sheep-from-non-programming-goats/ https://blog.codinghorror.com/separating-programming-sheep-f... and The Camel has Two Humps: http://eis.mdx.ac.uk/research/PhDArea/saeed/paper1.pdf http://eis.mdx.ac.uk/research/PhDArea/saeed/paper1.pdf, is real. I see it every day. I think there is another dichotomy. Many people who can code, can think the way needed to write software (not just fumbling and guessing), and can understand a structural and procedural way of thinking. But a large proportion just cannot understand functional programming. "Poof!". I don't think it's education. I think it's a lack of a particular and obscure innate mathematical ability. And I don't think it's a defect either. Peoples brains are wired different. Visual vs. verbal. Well FP, certain types of math (say number theory), temporal thinking (threads, race conditions, liveness proofs), are very different kinds of thinking than the basic "recipe-like" procedural coding. So FP isn't the norm because out of 100 people, perhaps 5 can program. Out of that 5, perhaps 1 really "gets" FP. Maybe one more can force it and get it done. My experience is watching co-workers try to maintain and manage a simple tool written in a functional language. It made perfect sense to me, but it was a disaster. Folks, some things that are easy-ish for you are just not easy for others. It's not "smart" vs "not-smart". Understand, not everyone is wired up the same way. And the ability to really get FP is one of those things that is neither easy nor common.
- oska 7y ago
  In case you didn't see it, this video was re-submitted and a much longer discussion thread ensued: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21280429 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21280429

3 points by oska 7y ago

Good presenter. Critique: I think an awful lot of the time and energy is spend analyzing the market type reasons for each language being popular. But by the time we get to supporting a thesis that OOP is less relevant, or not central, to things like C++ and Java, not enough time and energy to really bring it home. And I'm not sure I'm convinced, although it is an excellent theory. Here's what I think: The dichotomy exposed in essays like https://blog.codinghorror.com/separating-programming-sheep-from-non-programming-goats/ https://blog.codinghorror.com/separating-programming-sheep-f... and The Camel has Two Humps: http://eis.mdx.ac.uk/research/PhDArea/saeed/paper1.pdf http://eis.mdx.ac.uk/research/PhDArea/saeed/paper1.pdf, is real. I see it every day. I think there is another dichotomy. Many people who can code, can think the way needed to write software (not just fumbling and guessing), and can understand a structural and procedural way of thinking. But a large proportion just cannot understand functional programming. "Poof!". I don't think it's education. I think it's a lack of a particular and obscure innate mathematical ability. And I don't think it's a defect either. Peoples brains are wired different. Visual vs. verbal. Well FP, certain types of math (say number theory), temporal thinking (threads, race conditions, liveness proofs), are very different kinds of thinking than the basic "recipe-like" procedural coding. So FP isn't the norm because out of 100 people, perhaps 5 can program. Out of that 5, perhaps 1 really "gets" FP. Maybe one more can force it and get it done. My experience is watching co-workers try to maintain and manage a simple tool written in a functional language. It made perfect sense to me, but it was a disaster. Folks, some things that are easy-ish for you are just not easy for others. It's not "smart" vs "not-smart". Understand, not everyone is wired up the same way. And the ability to really get FP is one of those things that is neither easy nor common.

oska 7y ago
In case you didn't see it, this video was re-submitted and a much longer discussion thread ensued: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21280429 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21280429