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> Opportunity cost of gun control is negligible (as showcased by the rest of the world). I don't call 100 million people murdered by their own governments with

> Opportunity cost of gun control is negligible (as showcased by the rest of the world). I don't call 100 million people murdered by their own governments within living memory "negligible".

bifrost 7y ago
People routinely "forget" the death toll of Communism/Statism because its very inconvenient.
- yellowapple 7y ago
  And also because that all happened far away, and that would surely never happen here in the Land of the Free™, right? That's not to say that a modern military couldn't and wouldn't curbstomp a bunch of civilians with small arms in this day and age, but an armed civilian is at least slightly harder to tyrannically subjugate than an unarmed one.
  - sunkenvicar 7y ago
    The 2nd Amendment is valuable because F35s, tanks, and helicopter gunships are useless for fighting an armed citizenry. Say a President uses the military to fight US civilians on US soil. He and anyone else involved in the plot would preside over a country not worth ruling. Because all their friends and family would be kidnapped and murdered by lunchtime.
    - ajuc 7y ago
      People in USA have no idea how authoritharian/totalitarian regimes happen, so they imagine such absurd scenarios. Totalitarian regimes start as democratic state with huge popular support for big changes in law. They slowly change law stretching some laws beyond recognition, but still preserving popular support by mass spending, finding external or internal public enemies. Before the country as a whole decide it's enough - it's far past the time for a revolution. Half of your friends support the authoritharian government and work actively to enforce it.
      - sunkenvicar 7y ago
        You clearly don’t know the worldview of Republicans, most of whom own guns. Many are ready to defend the Republic against all enemies - foreign and domestic. Gun ownership is an inoculation against totalitarianism. So far you seem to be a pessimistic outlier without solutions. This attitude is easily exploited by authoritarians.
        AstralStorm 7y ago
        What stops them from becoming plain old authoritarian supporters with guns? They wouldn't defend anyone if coopted well enough. Attribute virtue, even more so Democratic virtue to such a huge chunk of population sounds extremely naive.
        CompanionCuuube 7y ago
        And your plan is to disarm those with Democratic virtues? That's not internally consistent.
        sunkenvicar 7y ago
        You clearly don’t know gun owning Republicans. They will defend the Republic. Including from totalitarians. You’re off in the rhubarb hallucinating about “Democratic virtue” which is a meaningless term and unrelated to a Republic based on laws.
        ajuc 7y ago
        I know the worldview of republicans. I see how they introduce "Patriot act" and remove personal liberties to fight fringe threats. They are much more likely to become authoritarian than to defend you from them :) May I remind you they are currently building a wall on the border and keeping children in concentration camps?
        sunkenvicar 7y ago
        You are proving my point because you are confusing the D.C. establishment with the people. You simply don’t know Republicans. If any are on this site they are chuckling at your comment. I digress. You seem interested in the southern border. The wall is currently made of tens of thousands of Mexican soldiers. Border walls are normal all around the world because they work. As for children in Obama cages, everyone agrees this is wrong. This is why a wall is so important - there won’t be any illegal crossers to detain.
  - bifrost 7y ago
    Indeed, the US Government has never unjustly imprisoned nor killed anyone... (this is sarcasm) The same people who yell "ACAB" for some reason request that the government's jackbooted thugs step on their necks harder.
ajuc 7y ago
Gun control and widespread gun ownership changes nothing regarding totalitarian states. Poland after WW2 had lots of weapons in circulation. There was big anti-communist resistance. Some of them fought till 60s. They achieved nothing and even the average citizen had enough of them few years in. They were only making life harder, stealing stuff to survive and causing property damage, and had no chances to win vs the army with tanks, aeroplanes, mines, and supply chains. Now it's even more absurd. People pretending gun ownership protects them from totalitarianism are deluded.

> Opportunity cost of gun control is negligible (as showcased by the rest of the world). I don't call 100 million people murdered by their own governments within living memory "negligible".

bifrost 7y ago

People routinely "forget" the death toll of Communism/Statism because its very inconvenient.

yellowapple 7y ago
And also because that all happened far away, and that would surely never happen here in the Land of the Free™, right? That's not to say that a modern military couldn't and wouldn't curbstomp a bunch of civilians with small arms in this day and age, but an armed civilian is at least slightly harder to tyrannically subjugate than an unarmed one.
- sunkenvicar 7y ago
  The 2nd Amendment is valuable because F35s, tanks, and helicopter gunships are useless for fighting an armed citizenry. Say a President uses the military to fight US civilians on US soil. He and anyone else involved in the plot would preside over a country not worth ruling. Because all their friends and family would be kidnapped and murdered by lunchtime.
  - ajuc 7y ago
    People in USA have no idea how authoritharian/totalitarian regimes happen, so they imagine such absurd scenarios. Totalitarian regimes start as democratic state with huge popular support for big changes in law. They slowly change law stretching some laws beyond recognition, but still preserving popular support by mass spending, finding external or internal public enemies. Before the country as a whole decide it's enough - it's far past the time for a revolution. Half of your friends support the authoritharian government and work actively to enforce it.
    - sunkenvicar 7y ago
      You clearly don’t know the worldview of Republicans, most of whom own guns. Many are ready to defend the Republic against all enemies - foreign and domestic. Gun ownership is an inoculation against totalitarianism. So far you seem to be a pessimistic outlier without solutions. This attitude is easily exploited by authoritarians.
      - AstralStorm 7y ago
        What stops them from becoming plain old authoritarian supporters with guns? They wouldn't defend anyone if coopted well enough. Attribute virtue, even more so Democratic virtue to such a huge chunk of population sounds extremely naive.
        CompanionCuuube 7y ago
        And your plan is to disarm those with Democratic virtues? That's not internally consistent.
        sunkenvicar 7y ago
        You clearly don’t know gun owning Republicans. They will defend the Republic. Including from totalitarians. You’re off in the rhubarb hallucinating about “Democratic virtue” which is a meaningless term and unrelated to a Republic based on laws.
      - ajuc 7y ago
        I know the worldview of republicans. I see how they introduce "Patriot act" and remove personal liberties to fight fringe threats. They are much more likely to become authoritarian than to defend you from them :) May I remind you they are currently building a wall on the border and keeping children in concentration camps?
        sunkenvicar 7y ago
        You are proving my point because you are confusing the D.C. establishment with the people. You simply don’t know Republicans. If any are on this site they are chuckling at your comment. I digress. You seem interested in the southern border. The wall is currently made of tens of thousands of Mexican soldiers. Border walls are normal all around the world because they work. As for children in Obama cages, everyone agrees this is wrong. This is why a wall is so important - there won’t be any illegal crossers to detain.
- bifrost 7y ago
  Indeed, the US Government has never unjustly imprisoned nor killed anyone... (this is sarcasm) The same people who yell "ACAB" for some reason request that the government's jackbooted thugs step on their necks harder.

ajuc 7y ago

Gun control and widespread gun ownership changes nothing regarding totalitarian states. Poland after WW2 had lots of weapons in circulation. There was big anti-communist resistance. Some of them fought till 60s. They achieved nothing and even the average citizen had enough of them few years in. They were only making life harder, stealing stuff to survive and causing property damage, and had no chances to win vs the army with tanks, aeroplanes, mines, and supply chains. Now it's even more absurd. People pretending gun ownership protects them from totalitarianism are deluded.