7 ms·

Preach. Politics being silenced in a work place is so short sighted and dumb. We should strive for a world where disagreement is not the end of a good working r

by voxl 7y ago

Preach. Politics being silenced in a work place is so short sighted and dumb. We should strive for a world where disagreement is not the end of a good working relationship, not one where crypto-politics is the new normal in the workplace. Because if you genuinely belief people want try to identify who is and isn't racist in a "conforming" way then you're delusional.

big_chungus 7y ago
Would you please clarify what you mean by, "Because if you genuinely belief people want try to identify who is and isn't racist in a "conforming" way then you're delusional?" Here's the problem: at least in SV, you're going to be restricted to a sub-set of very narrow beliefs which are acceptable to express. I may hold a personal belief that, say, trans-sexuality is not a "real thing" or ought not to be treated with surgery. Do you honestly believe I'd be able to express that in such an environment, as much as someone who believes it is "a thing"? You may believe my belief is just too "in-tolerant" or "bigoted" to be expressed, but who are you to be the arbiter thereof? Now let's take the other side of the coin. If you work in the energy industry, heavy manufacturing, etc., you probably couldn't express support for trans-sexuals without having problems. On the other hand, you'd likely have no issue saying you didn't believe in such a thing. I know someone in energy who wore a rainbow flag pin during one gay month a few years ago; he wasn't fired, but many of his superiors became noticeably cold toward him and he left after realizing he probably couldn't move up at that company. Again, why ought that to be the case? The biggest issue is that when people start talking politics, you are expected to participate. Some one looks over and says, "Hey Big Chungus, what do you think?" In such a situation, I cannot reasonably say, "Oh, I have no opinion." Certain issues are simply so partisan that such a response, even in the rare circumstance that it is true, will anger both sides and damage me. So, I avoid talking politics at work and try to work at places where others do the same. People I work with generally never know my politics. I am more than happy to bloviate about political stuff with friends and family, or to go be mad online after work. At work, it is best to stay non-partisan.
- pjc50 7y ago
  > Do you honestly believe I'd be able to express that in such an environment, as much as someone who believes it is "a thing"? Should you be able to comfortably express that to your trans co-worker, no matter how uncomfortable that makes them? That's why this is not a symmetrical issue.
  - big_chungus 7y ago
    What if you have a co-worker who is an Arab immigrant and does not believe in trans-sexuality due to his cultural and religious background? Should he be able to express that? Why or why not? Ought the trans-sexual to be able to express his beliefs if it makes said co-worker uncomfortable? When two deeply-held elements of personal identity are in conflict, the only way to resolve it is for both sides to keep silent or for a third party to insert himself and pick the side in which he believes. In either case, you are telling someone he must change who he is. The alternative is to simply not discuss such matters at work. And yes, I believe both sides have the right to express their beliefs and that the comfort of neither trumps the right of the other to speak. I just think time, place, and manner are generally reasonable constraints.
    - CompanionCuuube 7y ago
      Yes, not discussing it doesn't mean you can't accommodate them. Just because you don't discuss religion in the office doesn't prevent you from having halal/kosher meal options. Not discussing transgender issues doesn't prevent you from having a gender neutral bathroom.
  - manigandham 7y ago
    The absolute answer is yes. You have a right to say it. Nobody is owed comfort. However this clearly won't lead to a productive workplace, which is why it's not a good idea to allow these discussions. There are plenty of other restrictions within a private company to create the best conditions for the work they're paying you for. It's perfectly reasonable.

by voxl 7y ago

big_chungus 7y ago

Would you please clarify what you mean by, "Because if you genuinely belief people want try to identify who is and isn't racist in a "conforming" way then you're delusional?" Here's the problem: at least in SV, you're going to be restricted to a sub-set of very narrow beliefs which are acceptable to express. I may hold a personal belief that, say, trans-sexuality is not a "real thing" or ought not to be treated with surgery. Do you honestly believe I'd be able to express that in such an environment, as much as someone who believes it is "a thing"? You may believe my belief is just too "in-tolerant" or "bigoted" to be expressed, but who are you to be the arbiter thereof? Now let's take the other side of the coin. If you work in the energy industry, heavy manufacturing, etc., you probably couldn't express support for trans-sexuals without having problems. On the other hand, you'd likely have no issue saying you didn't believe in such a thing. I know someone in energy who wore a rainbow flag pin during one gay month a few years ago; he wasn't fired, but many of his superiors became noticeably cold toward him and he left after realizing he probably couldn't move up at that company. Again, why ought that to be the case? The biggest issue is that when people start talking politics, you are expected to participate. Some one looks over and says, "Hey Big Chungus, what do you think?" In such a situation, I cannot reasonably say, "Oh, I have no opinion." Certain issues are simply so partisan that such a response, even in the rare circumstance that it is true, will anger both sides and damage me. So, I avoid talking politics at work and try to work at places where others do the same. People I work with generally never know my politics. I am more than happy to bloviate about political stuff with friends and family, or to go be mad online after work. At work, it is best to stay non-partisan.

pjc50 7y ago
> Do you honestly believe I'd be able to express that in such an environment, as much as someone who believes it is "a thing"? Should you be able to comfortably express that to your trans co-worker, no matter how uncomfortable that makes them? That's why this is not a symmetrical issue.
- big_chungus 7y ago
  What if you have a co-worker who is an Arab immigrant and does not believe in trans-sexuality due to his cultural and religious background? Should he be able to express that? Why or why not? Ought the trans-sexual to be able to express his beliefs if it makes said co-worker uncomfortable? When two deeply-held elements of personal identity are in conflict, the only way to resolve it is for both sides to keep silent or for a third party to insert himself and pick the side in which he believes. In either case, you are telling someone he must change who he is. The alternative is to simply not discuss such matters at work. And yes, I believe both sides have the right to express their beliefs and that the comfort of neither trumps the right of the other to speak. I just think time, place, and manner are generally reasonable constraints.
  - CompanionCuuube 7y ago
    Yes, not discussing it doesn't mean you can't accommodate them. Just because you don't discuss religion in the office doesn't prevent you from having halal/kosher meal options. Not discussing transgender issues doesn't prevent you from having a gender neutral bathroom.
- manigandham 7y ago
  The absolute answer is yes. You have a right to say it. Nobody is owed comfort. However this clearly won't lead to a productive workplace, which is why it's not a good idea to allow these discussions. There are plenty of other restrictions within a private company to create the best conditions for the work they're paying you for. It's perfectly reasonable.