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> If we really believe that native Americans are valuable as native Americans (and I think that they are) then we need to provide governance structure that can

> If we really believe that native Americans are valuable as native Americans (and I think that they are) then we need to provide governance structure that can work for them. An individual who is a native american is valuable because they are a human. Their race does not factor into their worth, thank goodness. We need to provide governance capable of working for the 300(400?) million people that call the United States home. None of those people should get outsized consideration, and especially none for their race. No nation can actually afford to negotiate with the US federal government as equals. Perhaps China and Russia are two exceptions. My proposed nations would nevertheless enjoy the same sovereignty that many other nations enjoy. If they would like US help, they can ask for protectorate status (like the Mariana islands), and the US should comply, because we should be friends with our neighboring countries, especially what would functionally be ex-colonies. The US needs to wash its hands of this kind of colonialism now, or it will fester and get much much worse.

mikepurvis 7y ago
The point of reconciliation/reparations is acknowledging that have been long-standing systemic oppression of these groups— it isn't a matter of just bucking up and working hard when you're subject to multi-generational trauma. I don't know as much about the US situation, but in Canada there was a long period of intentional attempted cultural genocide, where indigenous kids were literally ripped from their parents' arms and sent to far off boarding schools and taught to behave white. That would be bad enough if it wasn't also an environment with almost no oversight that led to rampant other abuses, including sexual. And this wasn't really all that long ago— the last of these residential schools didn't close until 1996. If you're interested in more about this, APTN did a terrific series called First Contact, which featured everyday Canadians with neutral-to-negative feelings about indigenous people touring the country and learning first hand about it: https://aptn.ca/firstcontact/video/season-1/ https://aptn.ca/firstcontact/video/season-1/
- tathougies 7y ago
  I acknowledge there has been long-standing government oppression of these groups. In response, I suggest that these groups no longer be subject to the government that oppressed them. When a parent is mean to a child, a child deserves its parents apology. When a friend is mean to a friend, they won't be friends anymore. In a partnership of equals, the behavior you described would result in the equals separating their interests and continuing on with their existence, not continued apologies starting again the cycle of abuse.
  - learc83 7y ago
    So our government oppresses a group of people for centuries, and the response is to wash our hands of the situation and wish them well. When a prisoner is wrongfully convicted, there is often additional compensation beyond just releasing them from jail. I have no problem with making them sovereign nations, but we owe them additional compensation.
    - tathougies 7y ago
      > So our government oppresses a group of people for centuries, and the response is to wash our hands of the situation and wish them well. Of course not. There is room for arrangements with the United States regarding foreign aid, defense assistance, policing assistance, etc for some number of years. These are to be negotiated as treaties between two co-equal nations, not as laws between a country and its citizens. We make these arrangements with poor countries around the world everyday. Why do we treat the native americans worse than literally every other oppressed nation? Please stop putting words in my mouth.
      - eropple 7y ago
        > Please stop putting words in my mouth. They’re not. You’re choosing maximally loaded phrasing at all points and then acting like you’ve been wronged when your posts are read into with the tone with which you decided to write them. If you are actually interested in discussion, it would help if you didn’t have a predilection for immediately poisonous phrasing after which you want to be granted generosity and assumptions of good faith. Like, we've had this discussion before. You don't get to write like a jerk and then take umbrage when people react to you like you're a jerk. You get out what you put in.

mikepurvis 7y ago

The point of reconciliation/reparations is acknowledging that have been long-standing systemic oppression of these groups— it isn't a matter of just bucking up and working hard when you're subject to multi-generational trauma. I don't know as much about the US situation, but in Canada there was a long period of intentional attempted cultural genocide, where indigenous kids were literally ripped from their parents' arms and sent to far off boarding schools and taught to behave white. That would be bad enough if it wasn't also an environment with almost no oversight that led to rampant other abuses, including sexual. And this wasn't really all that long ago— the last of these residential schools didn't close until 1996. If you're interested in more about this, APTN did a terrific series called First Contact, which featured everyday Canadians with neutral-to-negative feelings about indigenous people touring the country and learning first hand about it: https://aptn.ca/firstcontact/video/season-1/ https://aptn.ca/firstcontact/video/season-1/

tathougies 7y ago
I acknowledge there has been long-standing government oppression of these groups. In response, I suggest that these groups no longer be subject to the government that oppressed them. When a parent is mean to a child, a child deserves its parents apology. When a friend is mean to a friend, they won't be friends anymore. In a partnership of equals, the behavior you described would result in the equals separating their interests and continuing on with their existence, not continued apologies starting again the cycle of abuse.
- learc83 7y ago
  So our government oppresses a group of people for centuries, and the response is to wash our hands of the situation and wish them well. When a prisoner is wrongfully convicted, there is often additional compensation beyond just releasing them from jail. I have no problem with making them sovereign nations, but we owe them additional compensation.
  - tathougies 7y ago
    > So our government oppresses a group of people for centuries, and the response is to wash our hands of the situation and wish them well. Of course not. There is room for arrangements with the United States regarding foreign aid, defense assistance, policing assistance, etc for some number of years. These are to be negotiated as treaties between two co-equal nations, not as laws between a country and its citizens. We make these arrangements with poor countries around the world everyday. Why do we treat the native americans worse than literally every other oppressed nation? Please stop putting words in my mouth.
    - eropple 7y ago
      > Please stop putting words in my mouth. They’re not. You’re choosing maximally loaded phrasing at all points and then acting like you’ve been wronged when your posts are read into with the tone with which you decided to write them. If you are actually interested in discussion, it would help if you didn’t have a predilection for immediately poisonous phrasing after which you want to be granted generosity and assumptions of good faith. Like, we've had this discussion before. You don't get to write like a jerk and then take umbrage when people react to you like you're a jerk. You get out what you put in.