5 ms·

I'm sure everyone who has to earn a living to support their family will appreciate this move. Nothing is worse than politics at work, where you may lose your pa

I'm sure everyone who has to earn a living to support their family will appreciate this move. Nothing is worse than politics at work, where you may lose your paycheck if you don't align with the correct factions.

reaperducer 7y ago
"There are three things in life I learned never to discuss with people: religion, politics, and The Great Pumpkin." — Linus
- siberianbear 7y ago
  That's an odd thing for Linus to say. I read a lot of Peanuts comic books in my youth, and it seemed to me that Linus could never stop blabbing relentlessly about the Great Pumpkin.
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    It was in the TV show. Probably right after Lucy called him a blockhead.
Hamuko 7y ago
Well, some countries have laws against that kind of a thing.
JDiculous 7y ago
The problem isn't the discussion of politics, it's the fact that that would even matter or influence your job in any negative way.
- jmchuster 7y ago
  I would normally consider that part of the human condition, not a problem that a company needs to solve. Trying to minimize the negative impact of it (like they are doing) seems about all they can do.
  - JDiculous 7y ago
    I do think that Americans in general tend to be oversensitive when it comes to politics, and this mindset bleeds into the workplace. And I say this as an American. I've heard that discussing things like politics isn't as big a deal in say Europe or Israel. Personally I wish the discussion of things like politics wasn't considered taboo because I think it makes for a more boring work environment, but I'm also the type who loves to debate with people who have opposing viewpoints and don't get offended easily. Unfortunately American culture has moved in the opposite direction revolving around appeasing to the most sensitive "victim".
    - Hamuko 7y ago
      During a recent company outing, I talked about politics with like four other people. Sure, it can be a bit awkward and you kind of have to think about what you're saying, but it wasn't exactly unusual. It probably helps that we, like many other European countries, have more parties than just two, so you're not always in an us vs. them situation like in the US of A.
      - JDiculous 7y ago
        Europeans in general just seem to be more open to political discussion. When traveling I've heard many Europeans tell me that Americans tend to be very sensitive when it comes to politics, and I've found that to often be the case in my experience as well.
        Hamuko 7y ago
        Well, as a European, I can agree with that opinion. I'd even say that Americans are very sensitive about a whole bunch of things.
- djsumdog 7y ago
  America has become very polarized over just the past decade. We say we want diversity, but that doesn't include that one fundie Christian person who reads his or her Bible at lunch and believes that homosexuality is wrong, but still wants to be friends with and accept everyone. We want diversity of people, but not diversity of ideas or ideology. People are afraid to talk about anything remotely controversial today, because it could result in a call for them to be fired or resign. We've seen it in academia and I feel like we're going to see it more in industry. One opinion stated on a blog or social media will be enough for others to dig up every hint of anything someone has ever posted that could be seen as negative and outright calls to have them leave. There's almost a point system in call-out culture; a subconscious social credit system among those who participate. The Coddling of the American Mind is a great book that talks about this growth in the academic space. It's made professors afraid to talk about difficult topics with their students.
  - magduf 7y ago
    >but that doesn't include that one fundie Christian person who reads his or her Bible at lunch and believes that homosexuality is wrong, but still wants to be friends with and accept everyone. Where is this person? In my experience, the fundies like this just can't stop from telling others how their lifestyles are "immoral" and "wrong". That's the problem with religious extremists like this, and why people who want "diversity" don't want people like this around: they're actively opposed to diversity, and because of their dogmatic religious nature, they feel the need to push their opinions on everyone. >We want diversity of people, but not diversity of ideas or ideology. Well, yes. The idea of "diversity" is having different people from different backgrounds together in one group, and (here's the important part) getting along well. You can't do that when some of them have a hateful ideology and they hate other members of the group and attempt to hurt them in some way. How would you have a diverse group composed of people of various nationalities, and then throw some neo-Nazis in there? It wouldn't work; you'd probably have violence, or at least some serious discord. There is of course a danger to this as you've pointed out, that things can go too far in the other direction and people are afraid to voice any negative opinion, but I'm just pointing out why calls for "diversity" don't actually include certain groups of people, because those groups are inherently opposed to diversity in the first place, and have a long track record of causing problems with it.
onion2k 7y ago
While everyone does have to earn a living and it's fair to think that's very important, if you believe your employer is doing something wrong and yet don't either speak up or look for a new job you're effectively condoning your employers actions. That isn't particularly admirable and your peers would be right to tell you as much.
- AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
  Whoever is not with me is against me? I may disagree passionately with what my employer is doing, but I also understand I may be wrong and they may be right. Or they may be wrong in some things, but still better than 90% of other employers. Or I may disagree with what they say, but wholeheartedly agree with what they do. And so on so forth.
- the8472 7y ago
  There is only a very limited number of hills that most people are willing to die on. So saying that they're condoning something doesn't actually tell us all that much, it means that they're tolerating something that they might find disagreeable, even deeply disagreeable. One can also say North Korean citizens are condoning their government, do we think badly of them for it?
pfranz 7y ago
I'm well aware I'm in a very privileged position, but I've tried to make a very strong effort throughout my career to live below my means. Maybe I'm pessimistic about losing my job or my company going under, but the freeing thing is if I'm unhappy for whatever reason I have options for leaving. I try hard not to assume or expect this from others, but I very strongly encourage it.
- malvosenior 7y ago
  > I'm well aware I'm in a very privileged position This is indeed a very privileged position. Most people need to pay rent, buy food, save for retirement, pay for their kids clothes...
  - pc86 7y ago
    In what possible way could you have read pfranz's comment to think they don't need to save for retirement or buy food?
    - malvosenior 7y ago
      People who need to do those things can't just leave a company because their politics don't align with it.
      - jdnenej 7y ago
        Because they were not living below their means like the comment said. Either because they make only just enough money to survive or they spend it on luxurys
        malvosenior 7y ago
        Yes, most people make just enough money to survive.
        jdnenej 7y ago
claudeganon 7y ago
If wage labor, “work,” is the condition of surviving in society, how could it avoid being political? Who is included in it, privileged by it, how it is organized, etc all have serious consequences that determine, again, one’s, baseline survival.
Tehchops 7y ago
What are the correct factions?
- whytaka 7y ago
  What are your moral convictions?
SolaceQuantum 7y ago
"Nothing is worse than politics at work, where you may lose your paycheck if you don't align with the correct factions." I should bring up in this light that its still legal to fire people for being gay in much of the USA and there's a current supreme court case coming up to determine federally if discrimination on the basis of orientation or gender identity is covered under current antidiscrimination law. In that case you're at risk for losing your paycheck if you aren't born the correct orientation and are found out.
- malvosenior 7y ago
  Right, people should advocate for whatever politics they want... just not at work. The issue you identify is a government one, not an individual workplace one. Even something like that is too much burden to put on your fellow co-workers to have to advocate for or pick a side.
  - Tepix 7y ago
    If you get fired for being gay you may think about this differently.
  - SolaceQuantum 7y ago
    "Even something like that is too much burden to put on your fellow co-workers to have to advocate for or pick a side." The manager has to pick a side- they can choose to fire an LGBTQ person for being LGBTQ or not. A co-worker can choose to treat a co-worker differently if they happen to be LGBTQ. An employee who is married and gay may need to choose to leave off their wedding ring and to not allow their spouse to enter healthcare with them, because they cannot risk their jobs by being found out by HR as a homosexual. These are all political workplace choices.

reaperducer 7y ago

"There are three things in life I learned never to discuss with people: religion, politics, and The Great Pumpkin." — Linus

siberianbear 7y ago
That's an odd thing for Linus to say. I read a lot of Peanuts comic books in my youth, and it seemed to me that Linus could never stop blabbing relentlessly about the Great Pumpkin.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  It was in the TV show. Probably right after Lucy called him a blockhead.

Hamuko 7y ago

Well, some countries have laws against that kind of a thing.

JDiculous 7y ago

The problem isn't the discussion of politics, it's the fact that that would even matter or influence your job in any negative way.

jmchuster 7y ago
I would normally consider that part of the human condition, not a problem that a company needs to solve. Trying to minimize the negative impact of it (like they are doing) seems about all they can do.
- JDiculous 7y ago
  I do think that Americans in general tend to be oversensitive when it comes to politics, and this mindset bleeds into the workplace. And I say this as an American. I've heard that discussing things like politics isn't as big a deal in say Europe or Israel. Personally I wish the discussion of things like politics wasn't considered taboo because I think it makes for a more boring work environment, but I'm also the type who loves to debate with people who have opposing viewpoints and don't get offended easily. Unfortunately American culture has moved in the opposite direction revolving around appeasing to the most sensitive "victim".
  - Hamuko 7y ago
    During a recent company outing, I talked about politics with like four other people. Sure, it can be a bit awkward and you kind of have to think about what you're saying, but it wasn't exactly unusual. It probably helps that we, like many other European countries, have more parties than just two, so you're not always in an us vs. them situation like in the US of A.
    - JDiculous 7y ago
      Europeans in general just seem to be more open to political discussion. When traveling I've heard many Europeans tell me that Americans tend to be very sensitive when it comes to politics, and I've found that to often be the case in my experience as well.
      - Hamuko 7y ago
        Well, as a European, I can agree with that opinion. I'd even say that Americans are very sensitive about a whole bunch of things.
djsumdog 7y ago
America has become very polarized over just the past decade. We say we want diversity, but that doesn't include that one fundie Christian person who reads his or her Bible at lunch and believes that homosexuality is wrong, but still wants to be friends with and accept everyone. We want diversity of people, but not diversity of ideas or ideology. People are afraid to talk about anything remotely controversial today, because it could result in a call for them to be fired or resign. We've seen it in academia and I feel like we're going to see it more in industry. One opinion stated on a blog or social media will be enough for others to dig up every hint of anything someone has ever posted that could be seen as negative and outright calls to have them leave. There's almost a point system in call-out culture; a subconscious social credit system among those who participate. The Coddling of the American Mind is a great book that talks about this growth in the academic space. It's made professors afraid to talk about difficult topics with their students.
- magduf 7y ago
  >but that doesn't include that one fundie Christian person who reads his or her Bible at lunch and believes that homosexuality is wrong, but still wants to be friends with and accept everyone. Where is this person? In my experience, the fundies like this just can't stop from telling others how their lifestyles are "immoral" and "wrong". That's the problem with religious extremists like this, and why people who want "diversity" don't want people like this around: they're actively opposed to diversity, and because of their dogmatic religious nature, they feel the need to push their opinions on everyone. >We want diversity of people, but not diversity of ideas or ideology. Well, yes. The idea of "diversity" is having different people from different backgrounds together in one group, and (here's the important part) getting along well. You can't do that when some of them have a hateful ideology and they hate other members of the group and attempt to hurt them in some way. How would you have a diverse group composed of people of various nationalities, and then throw some neo-Nazis in there? It wouldn't work; you'd probably have violence, or at least some serious discord. There is of course a danger to this as you've pointed out, that things can go too far in the other direction and people are afraid to voice any negative opinion, but I'm just pointing out why calls for "diversity" don't actually include certain groups of people, because those groups are inherently opposed to diversity in the first place, and have a long track record of causing problems with it.

onion2k 7y ago

While everyone does have to earn a living and it's fair to think that's very important, if you believe your employer is doing something wrong and yet don't either speak up or look for a new job you're effectively condoning your employers actions. That isn't particularly admirable and your peers would be right to tell you as much.

AlexTWithBeard 7y ago
Whoever is not with me is against me? I may disagree passionately with what my employer is doing, but I also understand I may be wrong and they may be right. Or they may be wrong in some things, but still better than 90% of other employers. Or I may disagree with what they say, but wholeheartedly agree with what they do. And so on so forth.
the8472 7y ago
There is only a very limited number of hills that most people are willing to die on. So saying that they're condoning something doesn't actually tell us all that much, it means that they're tolerating something that they might find disagreeable, even deeply disagreeable. One can also say North Korean citizens are condoning their government, do we think badly of them for it?

pfranz 7y ago

I'm well aware I'm in a very privileged position, but I've tried to make a very strong effort throughout my career to live below my means. Maybe I'm pessimistic about losing my job or my company going under, but the freeing thing is if I'm unhappy for whatever reason I have options for leaving. I try hard not to assume or expect this from others, but I very strongly encourage it.

malvosenior 7y ago
> I'm well aware I'm in a very privileged position This is indeed a very privileged position. Most people need to pay rent, buy food, save for retirement, pay for their kids clothes...
- pc86 7y ago
  In what possible way could you have read pfranz's comment to think they don't need to save for retirement or buy food?
  - malvosenior 7y ago
    People who need to do those things can't just leave a company because their politics don't align with it.
    - jdnenej 7y ago
      Because they were not living below their means like the comment said. Either because they make only just enough money to survive or they spend it on luxurys
      - malvosenior 7y ago
        Yes, most people make just enough money to survive.
        jdnenej 7y ago

claudeganon 7y ago

If wage labor, “work,” is the condition of surviving in society, how could it avoid being political? Who is included in it, privileged by it, how it is organized, etc all have serious consequences that determine, again, one’s, baseline survival.

Tehchops 7y ago

What are the correct factions?

whytaka 7y ago
What are your moral convictions?

SolaceQuantum 7y ago

"Nothing is worse than politics at work, where you may lose your paycheck if you don't align with the correct factions." I should bring up in this light that its still legal to fire people for being gay in much of the USA and there's a current supreme court case coming up to determine federally if discrimination on the basis of orientation or gender identity is covered under current antidiscrimination law. In that case you're at risk for losing your paycheck if you aren't born the correct orientation and are found out.

malvosenior 7y ago
Right, people should advocate for whatever politics they want... just not at work. The issue you identify is a government one, not an individual workplace one. Even something like that is too much burden to put on your fellow co-workers to have to advocate for or pick a side.
- Tepix 7y ago
  If you get fired for being gay you may think about this differently.
- SolaceQuantum 7y ago
  "Even something like that is too much burden to put on your fellow co-workers to have to advocate for or pick a side." The manager has to pick a side- they can choose to fire an LGBTQ person for being LGBTQ or not. A co-worker can choose to treat a co-worker differently if they happen to be LGBTQ. An employee who is married and gay may need to choose to leave off their wedding ring and to not allow their spouse to enter healthcare with them, because they cannot risk their jobs by being found out by HR as a homosexual. These are all political workplace choices.