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I totally disagree based on experience with using a CAD software for many years. A space mouse isn’t a trackpoint. It is a 6 degrees of freedom device that feel

I totally disagree based on experience with using a CAD software for many years. A space mouse isn’t a trackpoint. It is a 6 degrees of freedom device that feels insanely natural once you get used to it. There is a reason why professionals working on 3D software use a Space Mouse - animation studios to Boeing. Everyone got one when you start a new job. You should try one if an opportunity comes up. Honestly, it will change your mind forever about what it does. And it’s nothing like a trackpoint, trackball or a joystick. I wish I could show it in person to you and blow all previous expectations. Edit: a couple of things: * Trackpoint: 2 axis device * Trackball: 2 axis device * Joystick: Usually 2 rotational axes, but you can get 3 axes (twist about Z-axis) * Space Mouse: 6 axis device You don't need to move things physically... try flipping through pages on iPad for 1 hour straight vs. using PageUp and PageDown keys on a keyboard. See it for yourself which one is more tiring.

jacobolus 7y ago
> I totally disagree Nothing you wrote is in disagreement with anything I wrote, except for the inaccurate assumptions about my past experience and your misunderstanding the main thrust of my comment. I have used several different space mice, and also taken a couple of them completely apart. I understand reasonably well how they work. They have a fixed internal part which is attached to the (slightly movable) outside shell by several springs, with little position sensors used to measure a proxy for the force and torque exerted on their outside shell. I believe the early versions used strain gauges instead of position sensors, but the result was more or less the same. > A space mouse isn’t a trackpoint. You completely missed my point. The part that is similar between a space space mouse and a trackpoint or joystick is that all of these essentially measure force on them, with that input converted by software to velocity (or angular velocity). If you let go they move back to a neutral position instead of staying where you put them. They do not measure the direct displacement or rotation of some physical component or body part. This is different than the input of a mouse or a touchscreen or a knob or a slider or a trackball or a scroll wheel or a dial or a stylus, but similar to the input of an analog trigger or pedal or steering wheel. > Trackball: 2 axis device A trackball with the appropriate sensor(s) can be a 3-axis input device (i.e. if the sensor fully characterizes the rotation). There have been several such devices made as research prototypes in various universities and corporate labs, and empirically they are much more efficient to use than space mouse for inputting rotations. However, they have never (as far as I know) been commercially produced. This is a shame, because I would love to have one, and building hardware for myself is a lot more effort than buying something off the shelf. > try flipping through pages on iPad for 1 hour straight vs. using PageUp and PageDown keys on a keyboard. See it for yourself which one is more tiring. This is a non sequitur. But to answer you, I am perfectly happy to flip physical pages on a book for 5 hours straight, without my fingers ever getting tired.
- spectramax 7y ago
  > You completely missed my point. The part that is similar between a space space mouse and a trackpoint or joystick is that all of these essentially measure force on them, with that input converted by software to velocity (or angular velocity). If you let go they move back to a neutral position instead of staying where you put them. They do not measure the direct displacement or rotation of some physical component or body part. This is different than the input of a mouse or a touchscreen or a knob or a slider or a trackball or a scroll wheel or a dial or a stylus, but similar to the input of an analog trigger or pedal or steering wheel. Yep, I did. I am sorry. I personally cannot stand using a trackpoint for precisely the same reasons as you're describing. Conversely, I tremendously enjoy using a space mouse and you would have to snatch it from my dead cold hands! It is so good, I don't know how to explain. > This is a non sequitur. But to answer you, I am perfectly happy to flip physical pages on a book for 5 hours straight, without my fingers ever getting tired. As compared to PageUp/PageDown? Which one do you think would make you less tired?
  - jacobolus 7y ago
    The physical book is a lot easier to carry to different kinds of body positions on varying furniture, walk around with, etc. I suppose a tap on the iPad screen is probably technically the least effort, but I don’t find flipping book pages to be a hardship, and being able to write in the book margins, organize books on the shelf, etc. is nice. YMMV. The most stressful aspect of using a typical workstation computer to read a long document is probably sitting in a typical office chair. You could compensate for that with a standing desk, but the book is still nicer IMO. > It is so good, I don't know how to explain. This is mostly because a 2D mouse + keyboard is quite a poor tool for navigating in 3 dimensions. A multitouch screen could conceivably be decent with a well-designed interface, but the common ones aren’t great.

jacobolus 7y ago

> I totally disagree Nothing you wrote is in disagreement with anything I wrote, except for the inaccurate assumptions about my past experience and your misunderstanding the main thrust of my comment. I have used several different space mice, and also taken a couple of them completely apart. I understand reasonably well how they work. They have a fixed internal part which is attached to the (slightly movable) outside shell by several springs, with little position sensors used to measure a proxy for the force and torque exerted on their outside shell. I believe the early versions used strain gauges instead of position sensors, but the result was more or less the same. > A space mouse isn’t a trackpoint. You completely missed my point. The part that is similar between a space space mouse and a trackpoint or joystick is that all of these essentially measure force on them, with that input converted by software to velocity (or angular velocity). If you let go they move back to a neutral position instead of staying where you put them. They do not measure the direct displacement or rotation of some physical component or body part. This is different than the input of a mouse or a touchscreen or a knob or a slider or a trackball or a scroll wheel or a dial or a stylus, but similar to the input of an analog trigger or pedal or steering wheel. > Trackball: 2 axis device A trackball with the appropriate sensor(s) can be a 3-axis input device (i.e. if the sensor fully characterizes the rotation). There have been several such devices made as research prototypes in various universities and corporate labs, and empirically they are much more efficient to use than space mouse for inputting rotations. However, they have never (as far as I know) been commercially produced. This is a shame, because I would love to have one, and building hardware for myself is a lot more effort than buying something off the shelf. > try flipping through pages on iPad for 1 hour straight vs. using PageUp and PageDown keys on a keyboard. See it for yourself which one is more tiring. This is a non sequitur. But to answer you, I am perfectly happy to flip physical pages on a book for 5 hours straight, without my fingers ever getting tired.

spectramax 7y ago
> You completely missed my point. The part that is similar between a space space mouse and a trackpoint or joystick is that all of these essentially measure force on them, with that input converted by software to velocity (or angular velocity). If you let go they move back to a neutral position instead of staying where you put them. They do not measure the direct displacement or rotation of some physical component or body part. This is different than the input of a mouse or a touchscreen or a knob or a slider or a trackball or a scroll wheel or a dial or a stylus, but similar to the input of an analog trigger or pedal or steering wheel. Yep, I did. I am sorry. I personally cannot stand using a trackpoint for precisely the same reasons as you're describing. Conversely, I tremendously enjoy using a space mouse and you would have to snatch it from my dead cold hands! It is so good, I don't know how to explain. > This is a non sequitur. But to answer you, I am perfectly happy to flip physical pages on a book for 5 hours straight, without my fingers ever getting tired. As compared to PageUp/PageDown? Which one do you think would make you less tired?
- jacobolus 7y ago
  The physical book is a lot easier to carry to different kinds of body positions on varying furniture, walk around with, etc. I suppose a tap on the iPad screen is probably technically the least effort, but I don’t find flipping book pages to be a hardship, and being able to write in the book margins, organize books on the shelf, etc. is nice. YMMV. The most stressful aspect of using a typical workstation computer to read a long document is probably sitting in a typical office chair. You could compensate for that with a standing desk, but the book is still nicer IMO. > It is so good, I don't know how to explain. This is mostly because a 2D mouse + keyboard is quite a poor tool for navigating in 3 dimensions. A multitouch screen could conceivably be decent with a well-designed interface, but the common ones aren’t great.