6 ms·

SHUM should have used monero There is a reason that many darknet markets have it as an option and some use it exclusively

ratsmack 7y ago
What makes Monero different than Bitcoin?
- simias 7y ago
  It effectively embeds a coin mixer in every transaction, so to speak. In bitcoin you can trace transactions from one account to the next in the public ledger, with Monero theoretically you won't be able to follow the funds quite as easily. Of course it remains to be seen if it really works if some three-letter organization really wants to figure out who you are.
  - rolltiide 7y ago
    Does it remain to be seen? There have been busts and indictments where the state was not able to determine anything about the Monero wallet that were also seized in the operation
    - chrshawkes 7y ago
      Can't the data just be taken directly from the ISP connecting to whatever crypto services are out there? If the FBI really wanted to get that info, I would think they can track all activity from the main hub directly.
      - steveeq1 7y ago
        It's encrypted, so no.
      - rolltiide 7y ago
        Monero nodes see IP addresses, but they do not see the sender's crypto address, and they do not see the receiver's crypto address. So in its current state, ISPs would only know what someone has launched a Monero wallet at some point in time. Using Monero is completely benign. In its also current but also upcoming state, Monero clients automatically connect to TOR or I2P. So a Monero node would not know your IP address and an ISP therefore would not either. Monero exchanges are merely Monero clients, and a Monero client knows its own address, and it knows the address the sender told it to send to which would be the receiver. But neither of these addresses are ever seen on the blockchain, and the receiver's Monero client does not know which address sent to it. Since the receiver's client doesn't reveal which address sent to it, and there is no passive blockchain sleuthing possible, and the nodes don't see any of this either, there is very little the FBI could do if users are following best practices which are the default behaviors of this network. Non-default behavior would be users that rely on exchanges exclusively: they send their 2 Monero from one exchange to another exchange. Exchange 1 is an account that belongs to the user, and it knows the address of Exchange 2. Exchange 2 is an account that belongs to the user, and it only has the same balance and transaction id as Exchange 1's send. The FBI happened to have subpoena'd both exchanges and found the same transaction id. Improbable now, but it could happen anytime in the future. When the user adds their own Monero client into the mix (exchange 1 - client - exchange 2, + time + different amounts), this gets exponentially more difficult as you already need access to the user, the subpoena, and their Monero client. There are many barriers to getting that, especially in the face of benign economic activity, and the blockchain itself doesn't help. You also aren't supposed to re-use addresses. This is true for Bitcoin and all cryptocurrencies. It means that an exchange wouldn't even know if you were sending to yourself, one of your other wallets, to a vendor to pay someone, or what. With Monero none of those recipients know who sent to them.
  - steveeq1 7y ago
    It does already work and the "three letter organization" can't do much about it. Hell, they can't even do anything about the bitcoin wallet "wasabi", much less monero: https://www.cryptopolitan.com/disgruntled-chainalysis-employee-spills-confidential-company-info-in-revealing-reddit-session/ https://www.cryptopolitan.com/disgruntled-chainalysis-employ... There have been academic 'attacks' on the monero cryptocurrency, but nothing usable in the real world.
    - botwriter 7y ago
      When the state names a particular company as anonymous or untraceable consider it compromised.
      - steveeq1 7y ago
        bitcoin is not "a company", it's a distributed network of computers that's basically impossible to take down.
      - bsder 7y ago
        Meh. The NSA will simply fabricate evidence if they really want to get you. As an individual, I can't stop the NSA if they are genuinely out to get me. All I can do is increase the cost enough that random bureaucrats have to get up from their computer, sign a form, and expend some money to do so.
      - commandlinefan 7y ago
        Maybe, but not in a usable way - if anybody had been working off of an assumption that Bitcoin were anonymous, they know better now. So if Monero is, as you say, compromised/compromisable, the government can only pull that trigger once before the cat’s out of the bag.
hisnameisjimmy 7y ago
Do you find it a little odd that in response to an article about rampant pedophilia you are admonishing people for not using Monero?
- navigatesol 7y ago
  >Do you find it a little odd that in response to an article about rampant pedophilia you are admonishing people for not using Monero? This is a hacker site. Is the most important point in the article that the Feds traced Bitcoin transactions to nab criminals, or that extensive child-porn rings exist? Only one of those is hacker-newsworthy.
- Doubl 7y ago
  Give over. The guy is focusing on the technical aspect of the story which is the reason it's on this site. Stop trying to make out that he's morally inferior to you.
  - dang 7y ago
    Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. Your comment would be fine with just its second sentence. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - Doubl 7y ago
      Point taken.
- rolltiide 7y ago
  They will have to develop new methods to deter the illegal behavior RIP Tracing bitcoin transactions, 2010-2020
scott_paul 7y ago
It remains to be seen if the methods used by monero, dash, and various zk-proof based coins are enough to prevent de-anonymization when a motivated state actor is involved. Gotta say though, this is one of the few times I'm glad to see someone too stupid to use proper anonymization tools.
- rolltiide 7y ago
  I know you were trying to be objective but Monero has to be considered in isolation There already have been indictments that happened to involve finding a Monero wallet on a seized computer and the state was unable to discern any information about the current balance or transactions accompanying it Again this would be another culprit busted because of their known bitcoin transactions, and the other wallets were just found alongside. So it doesn't prove or disprove that starting with a Monero transaction would net results, but it provides an ongoing and improving degree of confidence.

ratsmack 7y ago

What makes Monero different than Bitcoin?

simias 7y ago
It effectively embeds a coin mixer in every transaction, so to speak. In bitcoin you can trace transactions from one account to the next in the public ledger, with Monero theoretically you won't be able to follow the funds quite as easily. Of course it remains to be seen if it really works if some three-letter organization really wants to figure out who you are.
- rolltiide 7y ago
  Does it remain to be seen? There have been busts and indictments where the state was not able to determine anything about the Monero wallet that were also seized in the operation
  - chrshawkes 7y ago
    Can't the data just be taken directly from the ISP connecting to whatever crypto services are out there? If the FBI really wanted to get that info, I would think they can track all activity from the main hub directly.
    - steveeq1 7y ago
      It's encrypted, so no.
    - rolltiide 7y ago
      Monero nodes see IP addresses, but they do not see the sender's crypto address, and they do not see the receiver's crypto address. So in its current state, ISPs would only know what someone has launched a Monero wallet at some point in time. Using Monero is completely benign. In its also current but also upcoming state, Monero clients automatically connect to TOR or I2P. So a Monero node would not know your IP address and an ISP therefore would not either. Monero exchanges are merely Monero clients, and a Monero client knows its own address, and it knows the address the sender told it to send to which would be the receiver. But neither of these addresses are ever seen on the blockchain, and the receiver's Monero client does not know which address sent to it. Since the receiver's client doesn't reveal which address sent to it, and there is no passive blockchain sleuthing possible, and the nodes don't see any of this either, there is very little the FBI could do if users are following best practices which are the default behaviors of this network. Non-default behavior would be users that rely on exchanges exclusively: they send their 2 Monero from one exchange to another exchange. Exchange 1 is an account that belongs to the user, and it knows the address of Exchange 2. Exchange 2 is an account that belongs to the user, and it only has the same balance and transaction id as Exchange 1's send. The FBI happened to have subpoena'd both exchanges and found the same transaction id. Improbable now, but it could happen anytime in the future. When the user adds their own Monero client into the mix (exchange 1 - client - exchange 2, + time + different amounts), this gets exponentially more difficult as you already need access to the user, the subpoena, and their Monero client. There are many barriers to getting that, especially in the face of benign economic activity, and the blockchain itself doesn't help. You also aren't supposed to re-use addresses. This is true for Bitcoin and all cryptocurrencies. It means that an exchange wouldn't even know if you were sending to yourself, one of your other wallets, to a vendor to pay someone, or what. With Monero none of those recipients know who sent to them.
- steveeq1 7y ago
  It does already work and the "three letter organization" can't do much about it. Hell, they can't even do anything about the bitcoin wallet "wasabi", much less monero: https://www.cryptopolitan.com/disgruntled-chainalysis-employee-spills-confidential-company-info-in-revealing-reddit-session/ https://www.cryptopolitan.com/disgruntled-chainalysis-employ... There have been academic 'attacks' on the monero cryptocurrency, but nothing usable in the real world.
  - botwriter 7y ago
    When the state names a particular company as anonymous or untraceable consider it compromised.
    - steveeq1 7y ago
      bitcoin is not "a company", it's a distributed network of computers that's basically impossible to take down.
    - bsder 7y ago
      Meh. The NSA will simply fabricate evidence if they really want to get you. As an individual, I can't stop the NSA if they are genuinely out to get me. All I can do is increase the cost enough that random bureaucrats have to get up from their computer, sign a form, and expend some money to do so.
    - commandlinefan 7y ago
      Maybe, but not in a usable way - if anybody had been working off of an assumption that Bitcoin were anonymous, they know better now. So if Monero is, as you say, compromised/compromisable, the government can only pull that trigger once before the cat’s out of the bag.

hisnameisjimmy 7y ago

Do you find it a little odd that in response to an article about rampant pedophilia you are admonishing people for not using Monero?

navigatesol 7y ago
>Do you find it a little odd that in response to an article about rampant pedophilia you are admonishing people for not using Monero? This is a hacker site. Is the most important point in the article that the Feds traced Bitcoin transactions to nab criminals, or that extensive child-porn rings exist? Only one of those is hacker-newsworthy.
Doubl 7y ago
Give over. The guy is focusing on the technical aspect of the story which is the reason it's on this site. Stop trying to make out that he's morally inferior to you.
- dang 7y ago
  Please don't respond to a bad comment by breaking the site guidelines yourself. Your comment would be fine with just its second sentence. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - Doubl 7y ago
    Point taken.
rolltiide 7y ago
They will have to develop new methods to deter the illegal behavior RIP Tracing bitcoin transactions, 2010-2020

scott_paul 7y ago

It remains to be seen if the methods used by monero, dash, and various zk-proof based coins are enough to prevent de-anonymization when a motivated state actor is involved. Gotta say though, this is one of the few times I'm glad to see someone too stupid to use proper anonymization tools.

rolltiide 7y ago
I know you were trying to be objective but Monero has to be considered in isolation There already have been indictments that happened to involve finding a Monero wallet on a seized computer and the state was unable to discern any information about the current balance or transactions accompanying it Again this would be another culprit busted because of their known bitcoin transactions, and the other wallets were just found alongside. So it doesn't prove or disprove that starting with a Monero transaction would net results, but it provides an ongoing and improving degree of confidence.