8 ms·

Those growing up with Remote Controls of the kind: https://i.imgur.com/AIqz63k.jpg https://i.imgur.com/AIqz63k.jpg After a few days, the user develops a muscle

Those growing up with Remote Controls of the kind: https://i.imgur.com/AIqz63k.jpg https://i.imgur.com/AIqz63k.jpg After a few days, the user develops a muscle memory of sorts. User doesn't even have to look at the controller and all actions (and feedback) are executed through the tactile interface. From cockpits to nuclear power plants to home tv remote control, there is absolutely nothing that replaces physical buttons, encoders, sliders and toggles. I haven't formally studied UI/UX, but these are important: - Feedback for an action - Predictable steps to take an action (Muscle memory) - Fast response - Expose current state (sliders, toggles do this) There should be 0% ambiguity or the user gets frustrated. Any piece of technology that puts impedance in this process is no fucking good. User shouldn't have to "guess and wait" whether the device recognized their gesture to swipe. A physical button guarantees that the action was performed by the means of feedback. Nope, sound feedback or taptic stuff still isn't as good as the click of a button. It can be but no one engineers it well. For example MacBook Trackpad that "clicks" without moving is excellent. Seeing touch screens (one exception, phone), cap buttons, gesture controls, etc everywhere makes me sad because it has nothing to do with UX but everything to do with the bottom line (cost) and marketing, and in this case perhaps better ad tracking? I will put this in plain words - Don't trust a company that sells ads at the same time as building hardware. Either sell ads or sell hardware, not both. Google already serves software which relies on trading off privacy (even if it is anonymized). When it comes to hardware, I freak out and no way in hell this thing sits in my home.

8ytecoder 7y ago
I know it’s one data point but I never developed muscle memory for remotes the same way as, let’s say, Emacs. I always stumble and press the wrong keys. More importantly the interface on the TV is convoluted. I don’t want next channel - I usually want to go to a specific channel. With, say, Apple TV it means scrolling through a bunch of apps - much faster. Or YouTube tv via chrome cast - scrolling through the guide on the touch screen.
- klodolph 7y ago
  Same here. Except for one or two functions, I would always end up squinting at a remote in the dark to try and read the labels. I like remotes like the Apple TV remote and the Roku remote (except for the fact that the Roku remote is a piece of utter garbage and I want to have strong words with the designer) because they focus on the essentials and let you do everything else through menus. (The Roku remote is an utter piece of trash for a couple reasons. First, it chews through AA batteries like it’s going out of style. Second, it is not responsive—there is a agonizing delay between when you press a button for the first time and when the action takes effect. My guess is that these defects are because it uses WiFi to communicate with the device, and I can’t understand why anybody thought that was a reasonable technology to choose.)
inform880 7y ago
What if one used audio feedback while using soli, eg swiping made a literally swiping noise, turning your hand clicked every notch you turned on a volume slider.
msencenb 7y ago
Right on the mark here. Feedback for devices like this are going to have to involve other senses, not touch. The most obvious ones being a visual + audio feedback of some kind. I built a project at school using a Kinect in 2011. Similar UI/UX model where you can essentially 'sense' the skeleton - we routed that data through a Node app that allowed you to swipe in the air to move through a photo album. One of the hardest parts of this is getting what people call the 'clutch' right. Basically, how is the interface supposed to know that my arm movement is meant to target the device, and not say a friendly wave to my neighbor? In voice interfaces this is the equivalent of 'hey Siri' or 'Ok google'. With skeleton sensing interfaces we could still do an audio clutch if needed or you'll need to use another body part to engage the action on the device. Fascinating problem and I'm curious as to what clever solutions will surface.
amrrs 7y ago
While agree with most of what you said, I have seen a lot of happy Face ID (over Touch ID). I think your 3 important points set a good framework for anything buttonless.
- spectramax 7y ago
  I added one more - Expose state of the system to user. Examples include: - Vintage radios with sliding marker that shows what the current station freq is - 3 state sliders that show whether something is state A/B/C by simply looking at it. When performing action on such a slider, user immediately knows by the means of performing the action, what the state of the system is! - Volume knobs, shows the current state. - Big bright ON light when a Keithley power supply is supplying power - Lots of Braun products, too many to list. May be these are obvious but it just reminds me that things we take granted are really important in UX/UI.
- dmix 7y ago
  The difference between primary interfaces and secondary interactions...
QualityReboot 7y ago
Found the vim user ;) That remote control is how I explain modal interfaces to people when they can't understand how my editor works.
- dmix 7y ago
  What was modal about the remote? Switching between TV/display/audio while the main set stays the same?
  - QualityReboot 7y ago
    Yeah. The same buttons do different things, but what they'll do depends which mode you've got selected. If you remember the remotes where it blinks an LED under the selected mode (tv/aux/DVD/whatever) as you're giving input with other buttons, that's a helpful reference.
    - qorrect 7y ago
      Ahha good call.
soared 7y ago
How is Soli any different? I know that if I put my hand in this spot and make the motion of turning a dial then it will turn down the volume, and I can hear the volume go down as I do it, whats the difference? Or if I tap the air in a specific way, get an audible tap noise, and know I've completed a preset action (index finger tap = set timer for 5 minutes) its the exact same thing. How is sound feedback not as good? 99% of phone interactions don't use buttons - are you saying that UX is bad? Also - every major company sells ads and other products. Every. single. one. Google? Apple? Microsoft? Valve? Netflix? Amazon? Bueller?
- gbasin 7y ago
  Sound is OK for a feedback of success. What we also need is visible affordances -- signals of what can be done, when, where, and how. Also, what I hate the most with these gestures is fearing that I'll get it close but not quite, and something else (or nothing) will happen. With a button, you can feel it and immediately make micro-adjustments while pressing to ensure success. This can possibly be done with sound, but I haven't seen it done well, yet...
  - soared 7y ago
    Agreed - but those are software problems that can be solved with training or good ux. iPhone has no indication of what can be down (How do you know you can swipe your homescreen up, down, left, and right?). Discover-ability is a challenge that has been overcome previously and can be overcome again. Part of that is the two games on the announcement page which show you examples of gestures. Doing gesture x accomplished y in the game, so maybe in the next app you open doing gesture x will accomplish something.
  - spectramax 7y ago
    Your comment reminds of “Design for everyday things” book. He talks about Affordances and Signals. I agree with you, sound can be ok as a signal that something has happened. It is fine with some users, but annoys others (beeps when a camera auto focuses, always a split opinion. Some people like it and some don’t).
- 7y ago
robbyking 7y ago
While I personally agree with your preference, I think it's dangerous to assume that a new generation of users will have the same preferences we do despite being raised with so many new user interface paradigms. Users tend to gravitate towards what feels "native" to them.
Fernicia 7y ago
>there is absolutely nothing that replaces physical buttons, encoders, sliders and toggles Even space, versatility, & cost aside, there are definitely tasks that a touch screen does better. Using a map with a touch screen is incredibly intuitive compared to a mouse. (I cannot imagine using sliders or other "physical" interfaces) >A physical button guarantees that the action was performed by the means of feedback So you've never experienced pressing on a TV remote and nothing happening? On touch screens I can see if the app responded to my interaction. On many button interfaces I cannot. >taptic stuff still isn't as good as the click of a button Not sure why you're so confident with this when most people I tell are surprised that their new Macbook touchpad is entirely haptic and not actually moving. >Don't trust a company that sells ads at the same time as building hardware So by this definition Apple is worse than Google for privacy?
- spectramax 7y ago
  I edited and added Macbook trackpad example before your response. I agree when its done right, it works but those are rare examples. Vast majority of products do not go to the lengths that Apple does. > Even space, versatility, & cost aside, there are definitely tasks that a touch screen does better. Using a map with a touch screen is incredibly intuitive compared to a mouse. (I cannot imagine using sliders or other "physical" interfaces) Have you used a space mouse? I think it is vastly superior to moving hands, pinching and getting tired after about 3 mins. CAD work requires moving things around for hours on . Pinching, zooming and moving things around with hands is completely insane to a CAD engineer - take a look at this: https://www.3dconnexion.com/products/spacemouse.html https://www.3dconnexion.com/products/spacemouse.html I've been using a space mouse since 2005 for mechanical CAD. I wish I can explain what it is like to use to others because you can't. It is as if its an extension of my senses, and it feels so incredibly natural.
  - jacobolus 7y ago
    The space mouse is like a joystick or a thinkpad “trackpoint”. It doesn’t move around or measure movements of the body, but just uses force on it to control velocity. This is much less intuitive/effective than a direct movement. A mouse beats a trackpoint hands down for speed and precision in any context where mouse-user performance is important per se (the trackpoint’s advantage is that it is already directly under the fingers while typing, so does not require moving the hands to a separate device and reduces switching time between mousing and typing). For just inputting rotation, the best ever tried is a trackball which senses a full 3 dimensions of rotation (most trackballs only sense 2 dimensions, with rotations in the third dimension ignored). These have only ever been made as research prototypes, but they were dramatically faster and more precise for people to use than a space mouse. 3D movement is hard to build physical devices to measure; for that maybe the space mouse is the best we can do.
est 7y ago
> Feedback for an action ULtrasonic haptic feedback maybe?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
stevep98 7y ago
That tv remote in the picture you linked is awful. Very little tactile differentiation to let you feel your way around, and way too many buttons. I remember when the TiVo came out, that remote was a game-changer: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Tivo-Remote-Control-/264398131030 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Tivo-Remote-Control-/26439...
bityard 7y ago
> From cockpits to nuclear power plants to home tv remote control, there is absolutely nothing that replaces physical buttons, encoders, sliders and toggles. My anecdote/complaint related to this. My previous car had knobs, sliders, and just a few well-positioned buttons for the radio and HVAC controls. A very classic arrangement that I got along with just fine. However, about three years ago, I bought a 3rd-gen Prius. Everything about the car is lovely except for the godawful interior controls. Evidence: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/82/44/a6/8244a6c6662a354dc7bad980ff70f814.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/82/44/a6/8244a6c6662a354dc7ba... I mean, I get that they were going for a Star Trek: TNG vibe with the whole thing but they totally let form ravish function in this case. _Everything_ is a button, none of the buttons line up, none have tactile feedback to tell you what you're about to press. There are buttons that pretty much never get used, there are _fake_ blank buttons, there are things which never should have been buttons in the first place. The HVAC controls are particularly bad: - Except for some little bumps, there is no tactile feedback anywhere around them, so there is no way to use any of the buttons without looking at them first. Which means taking your eyes off the road to change anything. - If you want to make drastic changes to the air temperature, you have to push the button several dozen times _all while watching the display_. On traditional HVAC controls, this job is just quick twist of a knob or push of a lever, neither of which is a great risk to your life. - If you want to change which vents the air is coming out of, you have to cycle through several different options with a single button. Once you've located it, that is. And I _always_ shoot past the one I actually want, which leads to more button pushing, swearing and taking my eyes off the road for _even longer_. - Depending on the configuration, outside temperature, and phase of the moon, the car will automatically decide whether to use interior air or exterior air for the intake. I _always_ have to _constantly_ check visually to make sure the HVAC is configured the way I want it because I can't trust that the car didn't change it for me. - Also the AC will be on whenever the defrost vents are, even though the AC light never comes on. - There is a button on the HVAC panel whose _only purpose_ is the switch the air intake to interior and crank up the fan to 100% for 30 seconds or so. I guess this is the "fart remover" function. I have never seen this on any other car, maybe it's a Japanese thing. - There is a button to turn the ventilation fan off, but not on. You turn on the fan by increasing the fan speed. So if you have the fan running on, say, fan speed 3, and want to turn it off momentarily and then go back to what it was, well, you just can't. The _only_ knobs on the whole car are at the top of the radio. The are impossible to reach without leaning forward, they are small, and they are stiff. If not for these flaws, the volume knob could be useful but the other knob is the 'tuning' knob which has essentially no purpose in 2019. The few among us who actually still listen to FM radio find their stations via the Seek buttons and program their stations to memory if desired. And finally, the button to engage the hazard lights is at the _bottom_ of the console within easy reach of passengers, kids, your resting hand, etc. Right where something more useful (and less obnoxious) could be. /rant
teslafanboi 7y ago
you are an incredibly stupid person
allenu 7y ago
I have an apple trackpad device (i.e. separate from the laptop) and I believe it uses a fake haptic feedback to indicate a "click" as opposed to a real mechanism. It's indistinguishable from a real click. HOWEVER, it makes my skin crawl when the driver doesn't register my click and there is zero feedback when I press down on it. It's like pressing down on the surface of my desk and it feels absolutely gross. This happens more frequently than I'd like.
- andoma 7y ago
  Tangental: Reminds me how buttons in various places (I've noticed this in elevators and POS terminals) beeps when you press them. However, the beep is not really tied to the CPU registering the event but rather the button itself being pressed. Ie, sometimes when you press the button, it clearly beeps, but nothing happens. Not sure if it's a result of underspecification or cheaping out on the electronics or both.
- ramenmeal 7y ago
  With the "Magic trackpad 2" if you have it turned off, there is no haptic feedback. At the time I didn't know it was haptic feedback and I was so confused as to how the whole click was broken.
- skykooler 7y ago
  The trackpad 1 does indeed have a real click - the way it works is that the little feet that sit on the desk are tactile pushbuttons; clicking moves the entire trackpad while the feet click in. It's disappointing this was removed in the trackpad 2; it's a very satisfying mechanism.
pattisapu 7y ago
Good points. Reminds me of an HN discussion about Star Trek: Voyager, where they build tactile, non-touchscreen controls for a shuttle, and there are backup tactile controls for when a crewman loses vision, for example--can still fly the ship etc. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20670810 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20670810

8ytecoder 7y ago

I know it’s one data point but I never developed muscle memory for remotes the same way as, let’s say, Emacs. I always stumble and press the wrong keys. More importantly the interface on the TV is convoluted. I don’t want next channel - I usually want to go to a specific channel. With, say, Apple TV it means scrolling through a bunch of apps - much faster. Or YouTube tv via chrome cast - scrolling through the guide on the touch screen.

klodolph 7y ago
Same here. Except for one or two functions, I would always end up squinting at a remote in the dark to try and read the labels. I like remotes like the Apple TV remote and the Roku remote (except for the fact that the Roku remote is a piece of utter garbage and I want to have strong words with the designer) because they focus on the essentials and let you do everything else through menus. (The Roku remote is an utter piece of trash for a couple reasons. First, it chews through AA batteries like it’s going out of style. Second, it is not responsive—there is a agonizing delay between when you press a button for the first time and when the action takes effect. My guess is that these defects are because it uses WiFi to communicate with the device, and I can’t understand why anybody thought that was a reasonable technology to choose.)

inform880 7y ago

What if one used audio feedback while using soli, eg swiping made a literally swiping noise, turning your hand clicked every notch you turned on a volume slider.

msencenb 7y ago

Right on the mark here. Feedback for devices like this are going to have to involve other senses, not touch. The most obvious ones being a visual + audio feedback of some kind. I built a project at school using a Kinect in 2011. Similar UI/UX model where you can essentially 'sense' the skeleton - we routed that data through a Node app that allowed you to swipe in the air to move through a photo album. One of the hardest parts of this is getting what people call the 'clutch' right. Basically, how is the interface supposed to know that my arm movement is meant to target the device, and not say a friendly wave to my neighbor? In voice interfaces this is the equivalent of 'hey Siri' or 'Ok google'. With skeleton sensing interfaces we could still do an audio clutch if needed or you'll need to use another body part to engage the action on the device. Fascinating problem and I'm curious as to what clever solutions will surface.

amrrs 7y ago

While agree with most of what you said, I have seen a lot of happy Face ID (over Touch ID). I think your 3 important points set a good framework for anything buttonless.

spectramax 7y ago
I added one more - Expose state of the system to user. Examples include: - Vintage radios with sliding marker that shows what the current station freq is - 3 state sliders that show whether something is state A/B/C by simply looking at it. When performing action on such a slider, user immediately knows by the means of performing the action, what the state of the system is! - Volume knobs, shows the current state. - Big bright ON light when a Keithley power supply is supplying power - Lots of Braun products, too many to list. May be these are obvious but it just reminds me that things we take granted are really important in UX/UI.
dmix 7y ago
The difference between primary interfaces and secondary interactions...

QualityReboot 7y ago

Found the vim user ;) That remote control is how I explain modal interfaces to people when they can't understand how my editor works.

dmix 7y ago
What was modal about the remote? Switching between TV/display/audio while the main set stays the same?
- QualityReboot 7y ago
  Yeah. The same buttons do different things, but what they'll do depends which mode you've got selected. If you remember the remotes where it blinks an LED under the selected mode (tv/aux/DVD/whatever) as you're giving input with other buttons, that's a helpful reference.
  - qorrect 7y ago
    Ahha good call.

soared 7y ago

How is Soli any different? I know that if I put my hand in this spot and make the motion of turning a dial then it will turn down the volume, and I can hear the volume go down as I do it, whats the difference? Or if I tap the air in a specific way, get an audible tap noise, and know I've completed a preset action (index finger tap = set timer for 5 minutes) its the exact same thing. How is sound feedback not as good? 99% of phone interactions don't use buttons - are you saying that UX is bad? Also - every major company sells ads and other products. Every. single. one. Google? Apple? Microsoft? Valve? Netflix? Amazon? Bueller?

gbasin 7y ago
Sound is OK for a feedback of success. What we also need is visible affordances -- signals of what can be done, when, where, and how. Also, what I hate the most with these gestures is fearing that I'll get it close but not quite, and something else (or nothing) will happen. With a button, you can feel it and immediately make micro-adjustments while pressing to ensure success. This can possibly be done with sound, but I haven't seen it done well, yet...
- soared 7y ago
  Agreed - but those are software problems that can be solved with training or good ux. iPhone has no indication of what can be down (How do you know you can swipe your homescreen up, down, left, and right?). Discover-ability is a challenge that has been overcome previously and can be overcome again. Part of that is the two games on the announcement page which show you examples of gestures. Doing gesture x accomplished y in the game, so maybe in the next app you open doing gesture x will accomplish something.
- spectramax 7y ago
  Your comment reminds of “Design for everyday things” book. He talks about Affordances and Signals. I agree with you, sound can be ok as a signal that something has happened. It is fine with some users, but annoys others (beeps when a camera auto focuses, always a split opinion. Some people like it and some don’t).
7y ago

robbyking 7y ago

While I personally agree with your preference, I think it's dangerous to assume that a new generation of users will have the same preferences we do despite being raised with so many new user interface paradigms. Users tend to gravitate towards what feels "native" to them.

Fernicia 7y ago

>there is absolutely nothing that replaces physical buttons, encoders, sliders and toggles Even space, versatility, & cost aside, there are definitely tasks that a touch screen does better. Using a map with a touch screen is incredibly intuitive compared to a mouse. (I cannot imagine using sliders or other "physical" interfaces) >A physical button guarantees that the action was performed by the means of feedback So you've never experienced pressing on a TV remote and nothing happening? On touch screens I can see if the app responded to my interaction. On many button interfaces I cannot. >taptic stuff still isn't as good as the click of a button Not sure why you're so confident with this when most people I tell are surprised that their new Macbook touchpad is entirely haptic and not actually moving. >Don't trust a company that sells ads at the same time as building hardware So by this definition Apple is worse than Google for privacy?

spectramax 7y ago
I edited and added Macbook trackpad example before your response. I agree when its done right, it works but those are rare examples. Vast majority of products do not go to the lengths that Apple does. > Even space, versatility, & cost aside, there are definitely tasks that a touch screen does better. Using a map with a touch screen is incredibly intuitive compared to a mouse. (I cannot imagine using sliders or other "physical" interfaces) Have you used a space mouse? I think it is vastly superior to moving hands, pinching and getting tired after about 3 mins. CAD work requires moving things around for hours on . Pinching, zooming and moving things around with hands is completely insane to a CAD engineer - take a look at this: https://www.3dconnexion.com/products/spacemouse.html https://www.3dconnexion.com/products/spacemouse.html I've been using a space mouse since 2005 for mechanical CAD. I wish I can explain what it is like to use to others because you can't. It is as if its an extension of my senses, and it feels so incredibly natural.
- jacobolus 7y ago
  The space mouse is like a joystick or a thinkpad “trackpoint”. It doesn’t move around or measure movements of the body, but just uses force on it to control velocity. This is much less intuitive/effective than a direct movement. A mouse beats a trackpoint hands down for speed and precision in any context where mouse-user performance is important per se (the trackpoint’s advantage is that it is already directly under the fingers while typing, so does not require moving the hands to a separate device and reduces switching time between mousing and typing). For just inputting rotation, the best ever tried is a trackball which senses a full 3 dimensions of rotation (most trackballs only sense 2 dimensions, with rotations in the third dimension ignored). These have only ever been made as research prototypes, but they were dramatically faster and more precise for people to use than a space mouse. 3D movement is hard to build physical devices to measure; for that maybe the space mouse is the best we can do.

est 7y ago

> Feedback for an action ULtrasonic haptic feedback maybe?

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

stevep98 7y ago

That tv remote in the picture you linked is awful. Very little tactile differentiation to let you feel your way around, and way too many buttons. I remember when the TiVo came out, that remote was a game-changer: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Tivo-Remote-Control-/264398131030 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-Tivo-Remote-Control-/26439...

bityard 7y ago

> From cockpits to nuclear power plants to home tv remote control, there is absolutely nothing that replaces physical buttons, encoders, sliders and toggles. My anecdote/complaint related to this. My previous car had knobs, sliders, and just a few well-positioned buttons for the radio and HVAC controls. A very classic arrangement that I got along with just fine. However, about three years ago, I bought a 3rd-gen Prius. Everything about the car is lovely except for the godawful interior controls. Evidence: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/82/44/a6/8244a6c6662a354dc7bad980ff70f814.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/82/44/a6/8244a6c6662a354dc7ba... I mean, I get that they were going for a Star Trek: TNG vibe with the whole thing but they totally let form ravish function in this case. _Everything_ is a button, none of the buttons line up, none have tactile feedback to tell you what you're about to press. There are buttons that pretty much never get used, there are _fake_ blank buttons, there are things which never should have been buttons in the first place. The HVAC controls are particularly bad: - Except for some little bumps, there is no tactile feedback anywhere around them, so there is no way to use any of the buttons without looking at them first. Which means taking your eyes off the road to change anything. - If you want to make drastic changes to the air temperature, you have to push the button several dozen times _all while watching the display_. On traditional HVAC controls, this job is just quick twist of a knob or push of a lever, neither of which is a great risk to your life. - If you want to change which vents the air is coming out of, you have to cycle through several different options with a single button. Once you've located it, that is. And I _always_ shoot past the one I actually want, which leads to more button pushing, swearing and taking my eyes off the road for _even longer_. - Depending on the configuration, outside temperature, and phase of the moon, the car will automatically decide whether to use interior air or exterior air for the intake. I _always_ have to _constantly_ check visually to make sure the HVAC is configured the way I want it because I can't trust that the car didn't change it for me. - Also the AC will be on whenever the defrost vents are, even though the AC light never comes on. - There is a button on the HVAC panel whose _only purpose_ is the switch the air intake to interior and crank up the fan to 100% for 30 seconds or so. I guess this is the "fart remover" function. I have never seen this on any other car, maybe it's a Japanese thing. - There is a button to turn the ventilation fan off, but not on. You turn on the fan by increasing the fan speed. So if you have the fan running on, say, fan speed 3, and want to turn it off momentarily and then go back to what it was, well, you just can't. The _only_ knobs on the whole car are at the top of the radio. The are impossible to reach without leaning forward, they are small, and they are stiff. If not for these flaws, the volume knob could be useful but the other knob is the 'tuning' knob which has essentially no purpose in 2019. The few among us who actually still listen to FM radio find their stations via the Seek buttons and program their stations to memory if desired. And finally, the button to engage the hazard lights is at the _bottom_ of the console within easy reach of passengers, kids, your resting hand, etc. Right where something more useful (and less obnoxious) could be. /rant

teslafanboi 7y ago

you are an incredibly stupid person

allenu 7y ago

I have an apple trackpad device (i.e. separate from the laptop) and I believe it uses a fake haptic feedback to indicate a "click" as opposed to a real mechanism. It's indistinguishable from a real click. HOWEVER, it makes my skin crawl when the driver doesn't register my click and there is zero feedback when I press down on it. It's like pressing down on the surface of my desk and it feels absolutely gross. This happens more frequently than I'd like.

andoma 7y ago
Tangental: Reminds me how buttons in various places (I've noticed this in elevators and POS terminals) beeps when you press them. However, the beep is not really tied to the CPU registering the event but rather the button itself being pressed. Ie, sometimes when you press the button, it clearly beeps, but nothing happens. Not sure if it's a result of underspecification or cheaping out on the electronics or both.
ramenmeal 7y ago
With the "Magic trackpad 2" if you have it turned off, there is no haptic feedback. At the time I didn't know it was haptic feedback and I was so confused as to how the whole click was broken.
skykooler 7y ago
The trackpad 1 does indeed have a real click - the way it works is that the little feet that sit on the desk are tactile pushbuttons; clicking moves the entire trackpad while the feet click in. It's disappointing this was removed in the trackpad 2; it's a very satisfying mechanism.

pattisapu 7y ago

Good points. Reminds me of an HN discussion about Star Trek: Voyager, where they build tactile, non-touchscreen controls for a shuttle, and there are backup tactile controls for when a crewman loses vision, for example--can still fly the ship etc. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20670810 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20670810