8 ms·

How to Read “Gilgamesh”

148 points by akkartik 7y ago

kipchak 7y ago
Maybe I'm over-projecting due to reading it in modern times, but the version of "Gilgamesh" seems to be from after the end of Uruk and more bleak than other ancient works. It begins and ends (while Gilgamesh is talking to the boatman) extolling the and power and seeming eternal of both Uruk and Gilgamesh, "Climb Uruk's wall and walk back and forth! Survey its foundations, examine the brickwork!... "Who is there can rival his kingly standing, and say like Gilgamesh, 'It is I am the king'?" But despite his and the city's stature death eventually comes to both. "The darkest day of mortal man has caught up with you, the solitary place of mortal man has caught up with you, the flood-wave that cannot be breasted has caught up with you, the battle that cannot be fled has caught up with you, the combat that cannot be matched has caught up with you, the fight that shows no pity has caught up with you!" To me it reads like trivializing the power and majesty of both Gilgamesh and Uruk and all mankind's achievements in the face of death.
- BjoernKW 7y ago
  They might seem dark but there's also wisdom in these words and Gilgamesh's ultimately futile, yet enlightening quest. What's Gilgamesh's grandstanding attitude worth in the face of the inevitability of death?
  - hgoel 7y ago
    That's a tad too nihilistic I think? Death is inevitable for even the most powerful person in the world, yet everyone still does their best and some are immortalized through their achievements. Gilgamesh's attitude is worth at least that much.
    - BjoernKW 7y ago
      > That's a tad too nihilistic I think? Not at all. At least not how I perceive it. I'd characterise it as existentialist rather than nihilistic thinking. Knowing that death is inevitable for everyone, even god kings such as Gilgamesh, can serve is a constant reminder to try and create a legacy that transcends yourself.
AdmiralAsshat 7y ago
The Epic of Gilgamesh, in its tablet form, is both fragmentary and rather wooden in translation. It is very difficult to derive meaning from it when read in isolation: you practically have to be an Ancient Near Eastern scholar to fully grasp the context in which it was written and appreciate it. Since most people don't have sufficient time on their hands to do that, I think the epic would greatly benefit from a rewrite into modern prose, not unlike the fantastic work that Neil Gaiman did not too long ago with his excellent Norse Mythology novel.[0] [0]https://www.amazon.com/Norse-Mythology/dp/B01M1DYSHD/ https://www.amazon.com/Norse-Mythology/dp/B01M1DYSHD/
- packetlost 7y ago
  I would love to see a version of 'The Epic of Gilgamesh' written by Neil Gaiman
- blotter_paper 7y ago
  A mushy remixed translation already exists, by Stephen Mitchell. That being said, I was surprised by how many timeless themes are clearly present in the fragmentary scholarly translations available. SPOILERS FOR THE OLDEST EXISTING LITERATURE: It's a story about a man trying to conquer monsters for the sake of timeless fame and glory, witnessing the death of his friend as a result of this quest, reflecting in his own mortality, trying to overcome death... and failing. There are other things going on with the story, the humor is repetitious and hard to embrace, and there are plenty of passages everyone is unsure about the meaning of, but this man-trying-to-overcome-mortality-and-failing theme is such a obviously human trope and it's clearly present in Gilgamesh. Compare and contrast to Ridley Scott's Prometheus.
  - jrumbut 7y ago
    Every expert seems to look down on the Stephen Mitchell version. I happened to read and enjoy it, not as a scholar of the ancient near east but just as a text that happened to be in front of me. Is there a more detailed breakdown of what's wrong with it? I seem to only find generalities.
gimboland 7y ago
Here [0] is a 45-minute radio show/podcast in which a presenter and three academic experts discuss The Epic of Gilgamesh. It moves fast and covers a lot of ground. (I recommend this series, In Our Time, whenever I can. Many jewels in the back catalogue.) [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b080wbrq https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b080wbrq — but also on iTunes, etc.
- mcguire 7y ago
  And here's a lecture by Andrew George, one of the translators mentioned: https://youtu.be/Rd7MrGy_tEg https://youtu.be/Rd7MrGy_tEg
undershirt 7y ago
I first read about the Epic of Gilgamesh at the start of a history textbook, where it was told as the ultimate origin myth of our civilization, raging against the beast of nature itself to conquer it. Though, that seems less accurate from reading this account and the one on wikipedia. But, Daniel Quinn’s reading of the Fall of Man in Genesis[1] is an antithetical account of the same story. Man did not seek to overcome nature, rather Man was banished from the garden (nature) by his own temptation to seek the knowledge to take care of himself—thus becoming captured and tortured by this original sin, accumulating into agrarian-fueled violence and expansion. All now rationalized[2] by our proclaimed knowledge of Good and Evil. My favorite part of this interpretation is that this story was not told by our ancestors, because if it was, they would’ve sanctified this knowledge-seeking as the Ascent of Man, not the Fall. So it’s hypothesized that the story was told by the herders and hunter-gatherers trying to formulate a story to explain the violent and toilsome lifestyle of the agrarians. Neat that there is also a mythic tree that Gilgamesh finds in the cave after hours of darkness. That he had returned to the garden somehow, and that he either wanted nothing to do with it or could find no answers there for him anymore. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael_(novel)#Reinterpretation_of_Biblical_myths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael_(novel)#Reinterpretati... [2] “The Creator? My mines run dry, my city withers, it must be fed. And what has he done? He cursed us to struggle by the sweat of our brow to survive. Damned if I don’t do everything it takes to do just that. Damned if I don’t take what I want.” —Tubal-Cain in Aronofsky’s Noah (2014)
mdorazio 7y ago
I have the same thoughts on Gilgamesh as I do on Shakespeare's works: don't read them, experience them. With Shakespeare's works, they are plays. They are meant to be experienced in a playhouse, not read by high school students stumbling over the language. The beauty is in witnessing the interactions of the characters on stage, the patterns of their speech, the tone of the jokes, etc. that just don't really come across when you read the words on a page. Reading Shakespeare is kind of a disservice to the material. Similarly, Gilgamesh is part of an ancient oral tradition of storytelling and was meant to be told by actual storytellers, in language that would resonate with the listeners. Trying to read it today is kind of a perversion of the original intent. I'd love to listen to a modern translation actually told by a good storyteller - basically the way it was meant to be experienced.
- lonelappde 7y ago
  The way Shakespeare is taught in schools is cargo cult art and literature, all the more shameful because the people inflicting it on the population are so self righteous in their ignorant arrogance as they ruin great art.
- GeoAtreides 7y ago
  Here are the first verses of Gilgamesh, sung in Sumerian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUcTsFe1PVs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUcTsFe1PVs
mcguire 7y ago
Neglecting to mention that Gilgamesh didn't want to kill Humbaba, but Enkidu talked him into it. (Enkidu is the patron of poor decision making.) And after Dumuzi, I wouldn't marry Inanna either: http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.1.4.1# http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.1.4.1# Then there's the whole thing about Gilgamesh sending Enkidu into the afterworld after his lost toy or game.
lordleft 7y ago
'Gilgamesh, where are you hurrying to? You will never find the life for which you are looking. When the gods created man they alloted to him death, but life they retained in their own keeping. As for you, Gilgamesh, fill your belly with good things; day and night, night and day, dance and be merry, feast and rejoice. Let your clothes be fresh, bathe yourself in water, cherish the little child that holds your hand, and make your wife happy in your embrace; for this too is the lot of man.'
- riffraff 7y ago
  as good an advice now as it was thousands of years ago.
equalunique 7y ago
Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash[0] offers some intriguing pointers on how to read Gilgamesh. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash
ekianjo 7y ago
So many blanket statements in this article it's hard to keep track. I love how the author makes it sound like everyone was completely stupid centuries before us: > In 1859, Charles Darwin, in his “Origin of Species,” put forth a theory suggesting that human beings might be descended not from Adam and Eve but from lower animals, things with fur. Not surprisingly, such ideas encountered vigorous opposition. Many scientists and scholars redoubled their efforts to find evidence of the truth of the Bible. Fundamentalists opposed Darwin but there was no position from the Church (officially) until 1950 or so. On top of that other scientists largely supported Darwin's central theme but debated the mechanisms of his theory. Yeah, not really what the author describes at all.
virtualritz 7y ago
There are quite a few graphic novel adaptions of Gilgamesh. I particularly suggest a very recent one from Jens Harder[1]. The aesthetic he uses is that of bas-reliefs of the Mesopotamian area at the time when the original epos was created. It's unfortunately only available in German (original) and French for the time being. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38741935-gilgamesh https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38741935-gilgamesh
Cyder 7y ago
I have a Masters in Hebrew. Psalms and Proverbs is much the same way. Much of the meaning is implied and contextual for the the sake of the cadence in Hebrew. Translations don't represent the complex structure and word-play of the original even if the translations do make it sound like poetry.
YeGoblynQueenne 7y ago
Beautiful read. For my part I recommend to answer the title of the article with "while listening to "Nindinugga Nimshimshargal Enlillara" by Equimanthorn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5egyvsfNJxc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5egyvsfNJxc

148 points by akkartik 7y ago

Maybe I'm over-projecting due to reading it in modern times, but the version of "Gilgamesh" seems to be from after the end of Uruk and more bleak than other ancient works. It begins and ends (while Gilgamesh is talking to the boatman) extolling the and power and seeming eternal of both Uruk and Gilgamesh, "Climb Uruk's wall and walk back and forth! Survey its foundations, examine the brickwork!... "Who is there can rival his kingly standing, and say like Gilgamesh, 'It is I am the king'?" But despite his and the city's stature death eventually comes to both. "The darkest day of mortal man has caught up with you, the solitary place of mortal man has caught up with you, the flood-wave that cannot be breasted has caught up with you, the battle that cannot be fled has caught up with you, the combat that cannot be matched has caught up with you, the fight that shows no pity has caught up with you!" To me it reads like trivializing the power and majesty of both Gilgamesh and Uruk and all mankind's achievements in the face of death.

BjoernKW 7y ago
They might seem dark but there's also wisdom in these words and Gilgamesh's ultimately futile, yet enlightening quest. What's Gilgamesh's grandstanding attitude worth in the face of the inevitability of death?
- hgoel 7y ago
  That's a tad too nihilistic I think? Death is inevitable for even the most powerful person in the world, yet everyone still does their best and some are immortalized through their achievements. Gilgamesh's attitude is worth at least that much.
  - BjoernKW 7y ago
    > That's a tad too nihilistic I think? Not at all. At least not how I perceive it. I'd characterise it as existentialist rather than nihilistic thinking. Knowing that death is inevitable for everyone, even god kings such as Gilgamesh, can serve is a constant reminder to try and create a legacy that transcends yourself.

AdmiralAsshat 7y ago

The Epic of Gilgamesh, in its tablet form, is both fragmentary and rather wooden in translation. It is very difficult to derive meaning from it when read in isolation: you practically have to be an Ancient Near Eastern scholar to fully grasp the context in which it was written and appreciate it. Since most people don't have sufficient time on their hands to do that, I think the epic would greatly benefit from a rewrite into modern prose, not unlike the fantastic work that Neil Gaiman did not too long ago with his excellent Norse Mythology novel.[0] [0]https://www.amazon.com/Norse-Mythology/dp/B01M1DYSHD/ https://www.amazon.com/Norse-Mythology/dp/B01M1DYSHD/

packetlost 7y ago
I would love to see a version of 'The Epic of Gilgamesh' written by Neil Gaiman
blotter_paper 7y ago
A mushy remixed translation already exists, by Stephen Mitchell. That being said, I was surprised by how many timeless themes are clearly present in the fragmentary scholarly translations available. SPOILERS FOR THE OLDEST EXISTING LITERATURE: It's a story about a man trying to conquer monsters for the sake of timeless fame and glory, witnessing the death of his friend as a result of this quest, reflecting in his own mortality, trying to overcome death... and failing. There are other things going on with the story, the humor is repetitious and hard to embrace, and there are plenty of passages everyone is unsure about the meaning of, but this man-trying-to-overcome-mortality-and-failing theme is such a obviously human trope and it's clearly present in Gilgamesh. Compare and contrast to Ridley Scott's Prometheus.
- jrumbut 7y ago
  Every expert seems to look down on the Stephen Mitchell version. I happened to read and enjoy it, not as a scholar of the ancient near east but just as a text that happened to be in front of me. Is there a more detailed breakdown of what's wrong with it? I seem to only find generalities.

gimboland 7y ago

Here [0] is a 45-minute radio show/podcast in which a presenter and three academic experts discuss The Epic of Gilgamesh. It moves fast and covers a lot of ground. (I recommend this series, In Our Time, whenever I can. Many jewels in the back catalogue.) [0] https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b080wbrq https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b080wbrq — but also on iTunes, etc.

mcguire 7y ago
And here's a lecture by Andrew George, one of the translators mentioned: https://youtu.be/Rd7MrGy_tEg https://youtu.be/Rd7MrGy_tEg

undershirt 7y ago

I first read about the Epic of Gilgamesh at the start of a history textbook, where it was told as the ultimate origin myth of our civilization, raging against the beast of nature itself to conquer it. Though, that seems less accurate from reading this account and the one on wikipedia. But, Daniel Quinn’s reading of the Fall of Man in Genesis[1] is an antithetical account of the same story. Man did not seek to overcome nature, rather Man was banished from the garden (nature) by his own temptation to seek the knowledge to take care of himself—thus becoming captured and tortured by this original sin, accumulating into agrarian-fueled violence and expansion. All now rationalized[2] by our proclaimed knowledge of Good and Evil. My favorite part of this interpretation is that this story was not told by our ancestors, because if it was, they would’ve sanctified this knowledge-seeking as the Ascent of Man, not the Fall. So it’s hypothesized that the story was told by the herders and hunter-gatherers trying to formulate a story to explain the violent and toilsome lifestyle of the agrarians. Neat that there is also a mythic tree that Gilgamesh finds in the cave after hours of darkness. That he had returned to the garden somehow, and that he either wanted nothing to do with it or could find no answers there for him anymore. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael_(novel)#Reinterpretation_of_Biblical_myths https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishmael_(novel)#Reinterpretati... [2] “The Creator? My mines run dry, my city withers, it must be fed. And what has he done? He cursed us to struggle by the sweat of our brow to survive. Damned if I don’t do everything it takes to do just that. Damned if I don’t take what I want.” —Tubal-Cain in Aronofsky’s Noah (2014)

mdorazio 7y ago

I have the same thoughts on Gilgamesh as I do on Shakespeare's works: don't read them, experience them. With Shakespeare's works, they are plays. They are meant to be experienced in a playhouse, not read by high school students stumbling over the language. The beauty is in witnessing the interactions of the characters on stage, the patterns of their speech, the tone of the jokes, etc. that just don't really come across when you read the words on a page. Reading Shakespeare is kind of a disservice to the material. Similarly, Gilgamesh is part of an ancient oral tradition of storytelling and was meant to be told by actual storytellers, in language that would resonate with the listeners. Trying to read it today is kind of a perversion of the original intent. I'd love to listen to a modern translation actually told by a good storyteller - basically the way it was meant to be experienced.

lonelappde 7y ago
The way Shakespeare is taught in schools is cargo cult art and literature, all the more shameful because the people inflicting it on the population are so self righteous in their ignorant arrogance as they ruin great art.
GeoAtreides 7y ago
Here are the first verses of Gilgamesh, sung in Sumerian: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUcTsFe1PVs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUcTsFe1PVs

mcguire 7y ago

Neglecting to mention that Gilgamesh didn't want to kill Humbaba, but Enkidu talked him into it. (Enkidu is the patron of poor decision making.) And after Dumuzi, I wouldn't marry Inanna either: http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.1.4.1# http://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/cgi-bin/etcsl.cgi?text=t.1.4.1# Then there's the whole thing about Gilgamesh sending Enkidu into the afterworld after his lost toy or game.

lordleft 7y ago

'Gilgamesh, where are you hurrying to? You will never find the life for which you are looking. When the gods created man they alloted to him death, but life they retained in their own keeping. As for you, Gilgamesh, fill your belly with good things; day and night, night and day, dance and be merry, feast and rejoice. Let your clothes be fresh, bathe yourself in water, cherish the little child that holds your hand, and make your wife happy in your embrace; for this too is the lot of man.'

riffraff 7y ago
as good an advice now as it was thousands of years ago.

equalunique 7y ago

Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash[0] offers some intriguing pointers on how to read Gilgamesh. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_Crash

ekianjo 7y ago

So many blanket statements in this article it's hard to keep track. I love how the author makes it sound like everyone was completely stupid centuries before us: > In 1859, Charles Darwin, in his “Origin of Species,” put forth a theory suggesting that human beings might be descended not from Adam and Eve but from lower animals, things with fur. Not surprisingly, such ideas encountered vigorous opposition. Many scientists and scholars redoubled their efforts to find evidence of the truth of the Bible. Fundamentalists opposed Darwin but there was no position from the Church (officially) until 1950 or so. On top of that other scientists largely supported Darwin's central theme but debated the mechanisms of his theory. Yeah, not really what the author describes at all.

virtualritz 7y ago

There are quite a few graphic novel adaptions of Gilgamesh. I particularly suggest a very recent one from Jens Harder[1]. The aesthetic he uses is that of bas-reliefs of the Mesopotamian area at the time when the original epos was created. It's unfortunately only available in German (original) and French for the time being. [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38741935-gilgamesh https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/38741935-gilgamesh

Cyder 7y ago

I have a Masters in Hebrew. Psalms and Proverbs is much the same way. Much of the meaning is implied and contextual for the the sake of the cadence in Hebrew. Translations don't represent the complex structure and word-play of the original even if the translations do make it sound like poetry.

YeGoblynQueenne 7y ago

Beautiful read. For my part I recommend to answer the title of the article with "while listening to "Nindinugga Nimshimshargal Enlillara" by Equimanthorn: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5egyvsfNJxc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5egyvsfNJxc