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Dictatorships notwithstanding, in a real democracy, voters are the check on that power. The problem is that, in the USA, money has been allowed to become direc

Dictatorships notwithstanding, in a real democracy, voters are the check on that power. The problem is that, in the USA, money has been allowed to become directly correlated with voter share and the tail wags the dog.

late2part 7y ago
While an unpopular position, I place the blame for this on the uneducated voters. Intelligence and research trump marketing and campaign finance.
- streb-lo 7y ago
  What about voters who are uneducated by design?
- luckylion 7y ago
  How is "the voters are just stupid" an unpopular position?
  - Synaesthesia 7y ago
    It’s not unfortunately. I don’t buy it, I think people aren’t stupid. It’s a profoundly anti-democratic idea. They’re manipulated by sophisticated powers, and the truth is hidden from them, they’re not stupid.
    - luckylion 7y ago
      I absolutely agree with regards to voters in total not being stupid, though I'm not so sure they're manipulated. Imho, "the voters are stupid" is an easy way to explain why "my side didn't win". They cannot not agree with me, they must be stupid. Assuming that they are being manipulated is similar, I believe.
- blotter_paper 7y ago
  > Intelligence and research trump marketing and campaign finance. Then why is advertising spending such a great predictor of who wins a political race? Just because we want something to be true doesn't mean it is, and if you want to think about a problem clearly it is necessary to confront the disgusting reality of the thing.
dnautics 7y ago
> money has been allowed to become directly correlated with voter share This is demonstrably false, most vividly exemplified by the current president who raised far less than his competitor. In the United States, when there is a race with no incumbents, the winner is anticorrelated with the one who raised the most.
- streb-lo 7y ago
  Money buys far more than campaign and PAC ads. Money buys newspapers, TV stations, etc. The fact that it can also buy unlimited amounts of direct advertising is just plain gross.
  - 8note 7y ago
    calling into TV news shows also gets you unlimited direct advertising, which Trump showed is highly effective
- magashna 7y ago
  The president is just a figurehead. Seeing the money flowing between corporations, lobbyists, and our representatives is much more indicative of money and its influence on our laws.
- minikites 7y ago
  Money allows organizations to write bills on behalf of special interests and hand them over to state and federal congress already formed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Legislative_Exchange_Council https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Legislative_Exchange_...
- TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
  Your statement that this is demonstrably false is demonstrably false. The current president has done wonders for the 0.1% - just as he was supposed to. https://www.forbes.com/sites/camilomaldonado/2019/10/10/trump-tax-cuts-helped-billionaires-pay-less-taxes-than-the-working-class-in-2018 https://www.forbes.com/sites/camilomaldonado/2019/10/10/trum... The fact that he provided a better ROI than average than his competitor is tangential - because the fact that fundraising is a key concern at all proves the point. In a genuine democracy elections would be fought on issues and demonstrated competence, not campaign income.

late2part 7y ago

While an unpopular position, I place the blame for this on the uneducated voters. Intelligence and research trump marketing and campaign finance.

streb-lo 7y ago
What about voters who are uneducated by design?
luckylion 7y ago
How is "the voters are just stupid" an unpopular position?
- Synaesthesia 7y ago
  It’s not unfortunately. I don’t buy it, I think people aren’t stupid. It’s a profoundly anti-democratic idea. They’re manipulated by sophisticated powers, and the truth is hidden from them, they’re not stupid.
  - luckylion 7y ago
    I absolutely agree with regards to voters in total not being stupid, though I'm not so sure they're manipulated. Imho, "the voters are stupid" is an easy way to explain why "my side didn't win". They cannot not agree with me, they must be stupid. Assuming that they are being manipulated is similar, I believe.
blotter_paper 7y ago
> Intelligence and research trump marketing and campaign finance. Then why is advertising spending such a great predictor of who wins a political race? Just because we want something to be true doesn't mean it is, and if you want to think about a problem clearly it is necessary to confront the disgusting reality of the thing.

dnautics 7y ago

> money has been allowed to become directly correlated with voter share This is demonstrably false, most vividly exemplified by the current president who raised far less than his competitor. In the United States, when there is a race with no incumbents, the winner is anticorrelated with the one who raised the most.

streb-lo 7y ago
Money buys far more than campaign and PAC ads. Money buys newspapers, TV stations, etc. The fact that it can also buy unlimited amounts of direct advertising is just plain gross.
- 8note 7y ago
  calling into TV news shows also gets you unlimited direct advertising, which Trump showed is highly effective
magashna 7y ago
The president is just a figurehead. Seeing the money flowing between corporations, lobbyists, and our representatives is much more indicative of money and its influence on our laws.
minikites 7y ago
Money allows organizations to write bills on behalf of special interests and hand them over to state and federal congress already formed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Legislative_Exchange_Council https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Legislative_Exchange_...
TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
Your statement that this is demonstrably false is demonstrably false. The current president has done wonders for the 0.1% - just as he was supposed to. https://www.forbes.com/sites/camilomaldonado/2019/10/10/trump-tax-cuts-helped-billionaires-pay-less-taxes-than-the-working-class-in-2018 https://www.forbes.com/sites/camilomaldonado/2019/10/10/trum... The fact that he provided a better ROI than average than his competitor is tangential - because the fact that fundraising is a key concern at all proves the point. In a genuine democracy elections would be fought on issues and demonstrated competence, not campaign income.