4 ms·

Rooting the Pixel 2 (I haven't tried the other Pixels) is not trivial for the average user, it still involves downloading third-party software and doing stuff o

by SamBam 7y ago

Rooting the Pixel 2 (I haven't tried the other Pixels) is not trivial for the average user, it still involves downloading third-party software and doing stuff on the command line. I had hoped that the pure-Google devices would have just had a switch: "I am now root," but alas it wasn't to be.

big_chungus 7y ago
I'm not sure that's important. If you make it too easy, it's a security hole. So, you have to wipe the device, which makes since in preventing a hostile actor from pressing the, "I am mow root" button and either dumping everything or installing malware. I also don't see an issue with google not putting a fancy gui front-end on their dev tools. They're built for advanced users, and in some ways, that's a barrier to entry to the avg. guy can't mess up his system or get phished into pressing the "root button."
panpanna 7y ago
> not trivial for the average user That is a very good thing. I wish they also made "install from unknown sources" a bit harder. Don't get me wrong, I love openness. But there must be a barrier of entry.
- BlueTemplar 7y ago
  That would have been acceptable if in parallel Google didn't own Google Play... Remember how installing apk's was claimed to be a viable alternative to Google Play for even the average user ?
  - panpanna 7y ago
    Yes, that's a real problem. At the same time, as long as Google is very clear why they are doing that I think they will be okay. After all, they already do this on Chromebook. Now, why should they do this? Because I have seen malware sites tricking people into first enabling 3rd party apps and then installing their apk.
TheCraiggers 7y ago
I don't believe that is correct. All you need is adb and the various Android command line tools. Those are all first party. If you downloaded a third party tool to make it easier, that's fine I guess, but it's not a requirement. Some of this I can understand. Root permissions does introduce some additional security considerations. We haven't fixed this in decades of computer usage in a way that preserves security, ease of use, and giving people easy access under the hood. My mother would click any number of scary UAC prompts in Windows just to get to the webpage she's trying to get to. That's not Windows' fault, but it is reality.
- Fradow 7y ago
  That's correct. adb doesn't give you root privileges. For example, you cannot install system apps with adb unless you have a rooted device already. You certainly have access to a lot of things with adb, but it can hardly be considered root on non-rooted devices.
  - kllrnohj 7y ago
    > adb doesn't give you root privileges. That's not true. It does have root support built in with 'adb root' that then runs future shell commands as root. The factory image has this disabled, though, so you do need to flash a build that supports it. That would be a 'userdebug' build variant ( https://source.android.com/setup/build/building#choose-a-target https://source.android.com/setup/build/building#choose-a-tar... ) So strictly speaking you can have root through purely first-party, open source, AOSP tools exclusively. It does, however, require doing a full build & flash yourself. That process is at least documented, though, so there's that. Just think of it like Gentoo
- rebane2001 7y ago
  I think what he was referring to was the need to use "complicated" tools not built into systems to gain root I do think it is a good thing though. For people like you and me, it's easy to do, but we also understand what root is and the dangers of it. For someone who doesn't, it's better off for them to not be able to root their device in the first place. Of course, we could bring up the catch 22 that is learning. If I hadn't tried out rooting, the terminal, modifying the filesystem etc back when I was younger and didn't know anything, I probably wouldn't know much about that stuff now.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
kllrnohj 7y ago
Not only does it not require third-party software, Google actually documents how to do it officially: https://source.android.com/setup/build/running#unlocking-recent-devices https://source.android.com/setup/build/running#unlocking-rec... You're correct it's not trivial for the average user, but the average user should also not have a rooted device (nor does the average user even want a rooted device). Is the learning curve perfect for the semi-advanced user? Probably not. But third-party software also fills this gap just fine. I don't think Google should be a required party here. They do provide officially supported tools & documentation for the process itself (and those tools work on all major platforms at that), just not a shiny GUI to do it. I think that's a reasonable point to be at.
lern_too_spel 7y ago
> I had hoped that the pure-Google devices would have just had a switch: "I am now root," but alas it wasn't to be. An unlocked bootloader is strictly more powerful than simply gaining root. You can even install other operating systems. The ability to safely gain root falls out as one of the possible uses of an unlockable bootloader.

by SamBam 7y ago

big_chungus 7y ago

I'm not sure that's important. If you make it too easy, it's a security hole. So, you have to wipe the device, which makes since in preventing a hostile actor from pressing the, "I am mow root" button and either dumping everything or installing malware. I also don't see an issue with google not putting a fancy gui front-end on their dev tools. They're built for advanced users, and in some ways, that's a barrier to entry to the avg. guy can't mess up his system or get phished into pressing the "root button."

panpanna 7y ago

> not trivial for the average user That is a very good thing. I wish they also made "install from unknown sources" a bit harder. Don't get me wrong, I love openness. But there must be a barrier of entry.

BlueTemplar 7y ago
That would have been acceptable if in parallel Google didn't own Google Play... Remember how installing apk's was claimed to be a viable alternative to Google Play for even the average user ?
- panpanna 7y ago
  Yes, that's a real problem. At the same time, as long as Google is very clear why they are doing that I think they will be okay. After all, they already do this on Chromebook. Now, why should they do this? Because I have seen malware sites tricking people into first enabling 3rd party apps and then installing their apk.

TheCraiggers 7y ago

I don't believe that is correct. All you need is adb and the various Android command line tools. Those are all first party. If you downloaded a third party tool to make it easier, that's fine I guess, but it's not a requirement. Some of this I can understand. Root permissions does introduce some additional security considerations. We haven't fixed this in decades of computer usage in a way that preserves security, ease of use, and giving people easy access under the hood. My mother would click any number of scary UAC prompts in Windows just to get to the webpage she's trying to get to. That's not Windows' fault, but it is reality.

Fradow 7y ago
That's correct. adb doesn't give you root privileges. For example, you cannot install system apps with adb unless you have a rooted device already. You certainly have access to a lot of things with adb, but it can hardly be considered root on non-rooted devices.
- kllrnohj 7y ago
  > adb doesn't give you root privileges. That's not true. It does have root support built in with 'adb root' that then runs future shell commands as root. The factory image has this disabled, though, so you do need to flash a build that supports it. That would be a 'userdebug' build variant ( https://source.android.com/setup/build/building#choose-a-target https://source.android.com/setup/build/building#choose-a-tar... ) So strictly speaking you can have root through purely first-party, open source, AOSP tools exclusively. It does, however, require doing a full build & flash yourself. That process is at least documented, though, so there's that. Just think of it like Gentoo
rebane2001 7y ago
I think what he was referring to was the need to use "complicated" tools not built into systems to gain root I do think it is a good thing though. For people like you and me, it's easy to do, but we also understand what root is and the dangers of it. For someone who doesn't, it's better off for them to not be able to root their device in the first place. Of course, we could bring up the catch 22 that is learning. If I hadn't tried out rooting, the terminal, modifying the filesystem etc back when I was younger and didn't know anything, I probably wouldn't know much about that stuff now.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

kllrnohj 7y ago

Not only does it not require third-party software, Google actually documents how to do it officially: https://source.android.com/setup/build/running#unlocking-recent-devices https://source.android.com/setup/build/running#unlocking-rec... You're correct it's not trivial for the average user, but the average user should also not have a rooted device (nor does the average user even want a rooted device). Is the learning curve perfect for the semi-advanced user? Probably not. But third-party software also fills this gap just fine. I don't think Google should be a required party here. They do provide officially supported tools & documentation for the process itself (and those tools work on all major platforms at that), just not a shiny GUI to do it. I think that's a reasonable point to be at.

lern_too_spel 7y ago

> I had hoped that the pure-Google devices would have just had a switch: "I am now root," but alas it wasn't to be. An unlocked bootloader is strictly more powerful than simply gaining root. You can even install other operating systems. The ability to safely gain root falls out as one of the possible uses of an unlockable bootloader.