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I've tried to educate many people on a personal level and failed miserably almost every time, being perceived and dismissed as an evangelist for some weird ideo

I've tried to educate many people on a personal level and failed miserably almost every time, being perceived and dismissed as an evangelist for some weird ideology they don't care about (and I took it very slow and tried really, really hard not to sound as one). Maybe they are right, after all? Who am I to dictate or even influence what they should care about, especially if they don't experience that clearly. People never become tech literate until it bites them in the ass. They have to face the consequences, that's how it works. Meanwhile in 2019, most people still find "nothing to hide" attitude perfectly reasonable.

BlueTemplar 7y ago
I wonder, were at some point doctors warning about cancer from second-hand smoking dismissed like that.
- ur-whale 7y ago
  The still are today (unless you live in em-bubbled places like Cali.)
bonoboTP 7y ago
But it is actually an ideology... It's the same as why people don't care about climate change or other far removed things from everyday life. For the normal, everyday non-tech user, they see that all their friends use these apps and nothing has ever happened to them. The FBI didn't come knocking, they weren't fired from their jobs or anything like that. From their point of view, why should they care about repositories, digital signatures etc., when they just want to use Instagram, Snapchat, Whatsapp and so on for some after-work (or during-work) fun / brain-swithoff. They just post some silly pictures or watch some Youtuber videos. All these concerns about privacy just don't reach the everyday reality and real-life concerns of people and is in effect an ideological thing, similar to rejecting proprietary software on the desktop due to moral and political beliefs. > They have to face the consequences, that's how it works The consequences (app creators changing their practices and policies) will be spread over everyone, not on individual users. As long as their friends and society keeps using it, most people will as well. If it slowly dies out, people will use whatever is new. Most people are not that much attached to using these apps, just use them out of boredom or to interact with others. They'd easily move on if that's how things evolve.
- orbital-decay 7y ago
  Funny that the same could have been said about actual literacy several hundred years ago. Who ever needs to be able to read and write in their everyday life? Why should I care? It's a thing far removed from everyday life, unless you're a trader or a priest or a scholar or some other expert. Today you can't imagine an adult person being unable to read, in most of the world. Except the tech is already there, and you use it with or without understanding. You use a credit card, electricity, Internet and other communications, some kind of computing device, your entire life depends on it. And IT shapes your life way more than any other tech, so it probably makes sense to get a grasp on the general concepts at least. No need to become an IT expert, similarly to how there's no need to become a Shakespeare to be literate. And yes, being tech illiterate can fuck you up very visibly and personally, for example by losing money from a stolen credit card.
  - bonoboTP 7y ago
    I think a better metaphor is driving. In many countries, like the US, driving is extremely widespread and most adults cannot function in the job market without being able to drive. However only a minority of them knows how cars work under the hood. Most people understand the pedals and the steering wheel and that's it. Same in tech. People understand there are screens, there are buttons you can click, text input fields you can type things in with the keyboard, on/off switch, sleep/standby, etc. All the things needed to operate it. > for example by losing money from a stolen credit card. I'm in Europe and I don't know anybody who had this happen to them, nor is identity theft a thing here. And this is mostly about phishing and social engineering anyway, not about understanding the tech background of package managers and digital signatures.
ur-whale 7y ago
> Meanwhile in 2019, most people still find "nothing to hide" attitude perfectly reasonable. I have had the exact same experience. I've long given up trying to explain anything to normies, including anything related to privacy. I really pains me to say this, but the bleating masses are the bleating masses, and getting them to internalize anything typically takes a generation.

BlueTemplar 7y ago

I wonder, were at some point doctors warning about cancer from second-hand smoking dismissed like that.

ur-whale 7y ago
The still are today (unless you live in em-bubbled places like Cali.)

bonoboTP 7y ago

But it is actually an ideology... It's the same as why people don't care about climate change or other far removed things from everyday life. For the normal, everyday non-tech user, they see that all their friends use these apps and nothing has ever happened to them. The FBI didn't come knocking, they weren't fired from their jobs or anything like that. From their point of view, why should they care about repositories, digital signatures etc., when they just want to use Instagram, Snapchat, Whatsapp and so on for some after-work (or during-work) fun / brain-swithoff. They just post some silly pictures or watch some Youtuber videos. All these concerns about privacy just don't reach the everyday reality and real-life concerns of people and is in effect an ideological thing, similar to rejecting proprietary software on the desktop due to moral and political beliefs. > They have to face the consequences, that's how it works The consequences (app creators changing their practices and policies) will be spread over everyone, not on individual users. As long as their friends and society keeps using it, most people will as well. If it slowly dies out, people will use whatever is new. Most people are not that much attached to using these apps, just use them out of boredom or to interact with others. They'd easily move on if that's how things evolve.

orbital-decay 7y ago
Funny that the same could have been said about actual literacy several hundred years ago. Who ever needs to be able to read and write in their everyday life? Why should I care? It's a thing far removed from everyday life, unless you're a trader or a priest or a scholar or some other expert. Today you can't imagine an adult person being unable to read, in most of the world. Except the tech is already there, and you use it with or without understanding. You use a credit card, electricity, Internet and other communications, some kind of computing device, your entire life depends on it. And IT shapes your life way more than any other tech, so it probably makes sense to get a grasp on the general concepts at least. No need to become an IT expert, similarly to how there's no need to become a Shakespeare to be literate. And yes, being tech illiterate can fuck you up very visibly and personally, for example by losing money from a stolen credit card.
- bonoboTP 7y ago
  I think a better metaphor is driving. In many countries, like the US, driving is extremely widespread and most adults cannot function in the job market without being able to drive. However only a minority of them knows how cars work under the hood. Most people understand the pedals and the steering wheel and that's it. Same in tech. People understand there are screens, there are buttons you can click, text input fields you can type things in with the keyboard, on/off switch, sleep/standby, etc. All the things needed to operate it. > for example by losing money from a stolen credit card. I'm in Europe and I don't know anybody who had this happen to them, nor is identity theft a thing here. And this is mostly about phishing and social engineering anyway, not about understanding the tech background of package managers and digital signatures.

ur-whale 7y ago

> Meanwhile in 2019, most people still find "nothing to hide" attitude perfectly reasonable. I have had the exact same experience. I've long given up trying to explain anything to normies, including anything related to privacy. I really pains me to say this, but the bleating masses are the bleating masses, and getting them to internalize anything typically takes a generation.