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I agree with the idea that "great evils are often the product of thousands of small steps that individually seem innocuous or trivial". What I take issue with

I agree with the idea that "great evils are often the product of thousands of small steps that individually seem innocuous or trivial". What I take issue with is these sort of insidious analogies (which, no surprise, tend to be analogies to Hitler or the Holocaust) where none exists except in the most circuitous of ways. Of course we need to be vigilant and, yes, the Holocaust stands out in our collective memory as the best proof of that. However, there is a vast difference between people going to the border of their own volition (put aside the question whether they are doing so under tremendous duress and exigent circumstances) vs the Jews during the Holocaust who could do basically _nothing_ to escape persecution. Immigrants could avoid whatever treatment they are receiving at the border by not going to the border altogether or going by other means. What exactly could the Jews during the Holocaust do? Nothing. None of this is to say there aren't legitimate criticisms related to what's happening at the border. But drawing an analogy, however loose it is, just weakens the argument and serves to seriously understate what happened during the Holocaust.

anoncake 7y ago
Jews could leave Germany until 1941. In fact, they were encouraged to do so. Finding a country that would take them was the problem.
- ncmncm 7y ago
  > Finding a country that would take them was the problem. ... was those Jews' immediate problem, just then. The problem was rather larger. We will be seeing huge waves of refugees as Global Climate Disruption renders large areas of the globe newly uninhabitable. There are already Nazi-like movements to "keep them out". Plenty of people will be found who would rather they were killed or starved to death than allowed in.
ncmncm 7y ago
The Holocaust is far from unique. Stalin executed or starved millions, maybe tens of -- for having the wrong grandparents. Mao starved tens of millions for the same offense. Pol Pot, similarly, albeit with fewer to draw on. The behavior in question is not the killing, but the enabling of abuse. IBM aided the Nazis. Who aided Stalin and Mao? Doesn't matter. The topic at hand is our evil, ICE. Are they Nazis? Doesn't matter. Are they engaged in evil? Yes. Is corporate America eager to aid the evil they do? Yes. "ICE are not executing Jews" distracts from the very valid analogy.
- anoncake 7y ago
  > The Holocaust is far from unique. Only if you ignore the ideology behind it. Which doesn't make Stalin, Pinochet, Franco, Pol Pot or Mao less evil. > "ICE are not executing Jews" distracts from the very valid analogy. That the ICE isn't executing anyone also doesn't mean that they won't in the future. Heinrich Himmler – the SS leader – called the "bolshevist method of physically exterminating a people [...] un-Germanic and impossible" as late as 1940.
  - ncmncm 7y ago
    Ideologies come and go. It is all sophistry: People will always invent reasons why doing what they are inclined to do is justified, and then do it if not stopped. It is everyone's personal responsibility to stop them.
    - anoncake 7y ago
      The Nazis didn't just randomly decide to exterminate the Jews and adopt facism as an excuse.
      - ncmncm 7y ago
        They did randomly decide to exterminate Jews, and Roma, and gays, and Catholic Poles. They were predisposed to fascism because it lent cover to gratuitous violence. Fascism is never a reasoned position. It provides a social framework for people's worst impulses.
        anoncake 7y ago
        That wasn't random. The Nazis did have reasons, just not sane ones. > Jews were a culture-destroying race. Just by existing, they weakened the Aryan race. Also, they stabbed Germany in the back after it had won World War 1. > Catholic Poles weren't supposed to be exterminated. In fact, they would be much happier as a culture-less people of uneducated laborers under German rule. They were docile and incapable of leadership or cultural achievements anyway. That "polish" intelligentsia? They actually had German blood. Some could be salvaged and regermanized. But many had to be killed to prevent them from working against Germany. This was very important because German blood made them quite awesome at everything, including treason. > They were predisposed to fascism because it lent cover to gratuitous violence. > Fascism is never a reasoned position. It provides a social framework for people's worst impulses. The Nazis had their share of thugs but impulsivity isn't what leads to industrial genocide. The gas chambers weren't built on a whim. They were built to protect the executioners' mental health, operating a gas chamber is less "personal" than shooting someone. The Holocaust didn't happen because Nazis liked killing people. They thought it was necessary.

anoncake 7y ago

Jews could leave Germany until 1941. In fact, they were encouraged to do so. Finding a country that would take them was the problem.

ncmncm 7y ago
> Finding a country that would take them was the problem. ... was those Jews' immediate problem, just then. The problem was rather larger. We will be seeing huge waves of refugees as Global Climate Disruption renders large areas of the globe newly uninhabitable. There are already Nazi-like movements to "keep them out". Plenty of people will be found who would rather they were killed or starved to death than allowed in.

ncmncm 7y ago

The Holocaust is far from unique. Stalin executed or starved millions, maybe tens of -- for having the wrong grandparents. Mao starved tens of millions for the same offense. Pol Pot, similarly, albeit with fewer to draw on. The behavior in question is not the killing, but the enabling of abuse. IBM aided the Nazis. Who aided Stalin and Mao? Doesn't matter. The topic at hand is our evil, ICE. Are they Nazis? Doesn't matter. Are they engaged in evil? Yes. Is corporate America eager to aid the evil they do? Yes. "ICE are not executing Jews" distracts from the very valid analogy.

anoncake 7y ago
> The Holocaust is far from unique. Only if you ignore the ideology behind it. Which doesn't make Stalin, Pinochet, Franco, Pol Pot or Mao less evil. > "ICE are not executing Jews" distracts from the very valid analogy. That the ICE isn't executing anyone also doesn't mean that they won't in the future. Heinrich Himmler – the SS leader – called the "bolshevist method of physically exterminating a people [...] un-Germanic and impossible" as late as 1940.
- ncmncm 7y ago
  Ideologies come and go. It is all sophistry: People will always invent reasons why doing what they are inclined to do is justified, and then do it if not stopped. It is everyone's personal responsibility to stop them.
  - anoncake 7y ago
    The Nazis didn't just randomly decide to exterminate the Jews and adopt facism as an excuse.
    - ncmncm 7y ago
      They did randomly decide to exterminate Jews, and Roma, and gays, and Catholic Poles. They were predisposed to fascism because it lent cover to gratuitous violence. Fascism is never a reasoned position. It provides a social framework for people's worst impulses.
      - anoncake 7y ago
        That wasn't random. The Nazis did have reasons, just not sane ones. > Jews were a culture-destroying race. Just by existing, they weakened the Aryan race. Also, they stabbed Germany in the back after it had won World War 1. > Catholic Poles weren't supposed to be exterminated. In fact, they would be much happier as a culture-less people of uneducated laborers under German rule. They were docile and incapable of leadership or cultural achievements anyway. That "polish" intelligentsia? They actually had German blood. Some could be salvaged and regermanized. But many had to be killed to prevent them from working against Germany. This was very important because German blood made them quite awesome at everything, including treason. > They were predisposed to fascism because it lent cover to gratuitous violence. > Fascism is never a reasoned position. It provides a social framework for people's worst impulses. The Nazis had their share of thugs but impulsivity isn't what leads to industrial genocide. The gas chambers weren't built on a whim. They were built to protect the executioners' mental health, operating a gas chamber is less "personal" than shooting someone. The Holocaust didn't happen because Nazis liked killing people. They thought it was necessary.