6 ms·

For ponds, she says, it might be that the presence of a certain type of newt tells you whether or not the water is healthy. In cities, the newts are children. “

For ponds, she says, it might be that the presence of a certain type of newt tells you whether or not the water is healthy. In cities, the newts are children. “If you can see children, it’s probably a healthy and happy city.” Large [presumably US] Cities With the Lowest Share of Families With Children San Francisco 16.5% Seattle 18.7% Washington, D.C. 18.9% New Orleans 20.7% Miami 21.4% Minneapolis 21.8% Philadelphia 22.5% Portland 23.2% Denver 23.3% Cleveland 23.7% https://www.citylab.com/life/2019/01/top-cities-for-families-with-children-data-childfree/580372/ https://www.citylab.com/life/2019/01/top-cities-for-families...

cafard 7y ago
Also, I think that for the top three you have to account for the influx of the young, who may have just established a household and not got around to children. That was the case for four households I can think of on my block since 2009.
wnevets 7y ago
Kinda misleading data IMO. For example Philadelphia proper is 141.7 mi² and Phoenix proper is 517 mi². A lot of families part of the the Philadelphia area live just outside the city limits.
RosanaAnaDana 7y ago
Yeah but its not if you have children, its if you see them. Children are not playing in the streets of Denver or Cleveland.
- UserIsUnused 7y ago
  Exactly this. But it's harder to get this stat, how would you properly measure it?
  - selimthegrim 7y ago
    Maybe not at nighttime/all hours?
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  Children play in the streets of New Orleans (the article does blame depopulation) and played in the streets of Cleveland when I was growing up there (cf. Tamir Rice)
crispyambulance 7y ago
I can't speak for SF or Seattle, but I suspect a big reason for lack of families with children in many large American cities is that, for the most part, public schools are unacceptable for any family that cares about education. DC, Philly, Baltimore, Cleveland... all the same story. Even in gentrifying and resurgent neighborhoods, parents with the means to do so leave as soon as their kids get to school age or enroll them in extremely expensive private schools. Some might try charter schools or selective magnet schools, but the local neighborhood school in your typical big city is typically a hard "no go".
- scarmig 7y ago
  SF has a lottery system. With the wrong stroke of luck, your child can be damned to hours of commuting across the city every day, just to go to a crappy school, when a "good" one might be across the street. That's an extreme example, and in the worst case scenario there are plenty of good private schools to send your children. But choosing to live in SF comes with such a set of pros and cons that many parents of school-age children who have a choice choose to live outside of it.
  - ska 7y ago
    Is a lottery system really worse overall than just letting people buy their way into desired school district? That model obviously hasn't been working well either.
    - wil421 7y ago
      You can have proper zoning and not have to make it buy in only. Before I moved to the suburbs the city I lived in created “Workforce” zoning to combat gentrification.[1] What’s really hard to stop are the doctors and lawyers who just send their kids to private schools and vote against everything. [1] https://www.ajc.com/news/local-govt--politics/brookhaven-zoning-overhaul-includes-affordable-housing-incentives/DIEN2Y7TxS40UXACqaHMxL/ https://www.ajc.com/news/local-govt--politics/brookhaven-zon...
    - scarmig 7y ago
throwawaysea 7y ago
Thanks for sharing. I think these metrics explain a lot of the differences of opinion on zoning laws/density, management/tolerance of crime, transportation modes, etc.
LargeWu 7y ago
Anecdotally as a resident of Minneapolis, I'm not sure what its inclusion on this list is supposed to signify. I think it's a great town to raise a family. We recently chose to build a new house just a few blocks from our current one, instead of move to the suburbs; our children are thriving in their public neighborhood school. There's tons of parks and green space nearby where we often run into neighborhood kids. One possible explanation I guess is that the city is doing well economically, but is not as overpriced as some of the others on this list. It's still attractive for both young professionals without kids to buy houses, as well as older adults without kids to remain in their houses after their kids have grown.

cafard 7y ago

Also, I think that for the top three you have to account for the influx of the young, who may have just established a household and not got around to children. That was the case for four households I can think of on my block since 2009.

wnevets 7y ago

Kinda misleading data IMO. For example Philadelphia proper is 141.7 mi² and Phoenix proper is 517 mi². A lot of families part of the the Philadelphia area live just outside the city limits.

RosanaAnaDana 7y ago

Yeah but its not if you have children, its if you see them. Children are not playing in the streets of Denver or Cleveland.

UserIsUnused 7y ago
Exactly this. But it's harder to get this stat, how would you properly measure it?
- selimthegrim 7y ago
  Maybe not at nighttime/all hours?
selimthegrim 7y ago
Children play in the streets of New Orleans (the article does blame depopulation) and played in the streets of Cleveland when I was growing up there (cf. Tamir Rice)

crispyambulance 7y ago

I can't speak for SF or Seattle, but I suspect a big reason for lack of families with children in many large American cities is that, for the most part, public schools are unacceptable for any family that cares about education. DC, Philly, Baltimore, Cleveland... all the same story. Even in gentrifying and resurgent neighborhoods, parents with the means to do so leave as soon as their kids get to school age or enroll them in extremely expensive private schools. Some might try charter schools or selective magnet schools, but the local neighborhood school in your typical big city is typically a hard "no go".

scarmig 7y ago
SF has a lottery system. With the wrong stroke of luck, your child can be damned to hours of commuting across the city every day, just to go to a crappy school, when a "good" one might be across the street. That's an extreme example, and in the worst case scenario there are plenty of good private schools to send your children. But choosing to live in SF comes with such a set of pros and cons that many parents of school-age children who have a choice choose to live outside of it.
- ska 7y ago
  Is a lottery system really worse overall than just letting people buy their way into desired school district? That model obviously hasn't been working well either.
  - wil421 7y ago
    You can have proper zoning and not have to make it buy in only. Before I moved to the suburbs the city I lived in created “Workforce” zoning to combat gentrification.[1] What’s really hard to stop are the doctors and lawyers who just send their kids to private schools and vote against everything. [1] https://www.ajc.com/news/local-govt--politics/brookhaven-zoning-overhaul-includes-affordable-housing-incentives/DIEN2Y7TxS40UXACqaHMxL/ https://www.ajc.com/news/local-govt--politics/brookhaven-zon...
  - scarmig 7y ago

throwawaysea 7y ago

Thanks for sharing. I think these metrics explain a lot of the differences of opinion on zoning laws/density, management/tolerance of crime, transportation modes, etc.

LargeWu 7y ago

Anecdotally as a resident of Minneapolis, I'm not sure what its inclusion on this list is supposed to signify. I think it's a great town to raise a family. We recently chose to build a new house just a few blocks from our current one, instead of move to the suburbs; our children are thriving in their public neighborhood school. There's tons of parks and green space nearby where we often run into neighborhood kids. One possible explanation I guess is that the city is doing well economically, but is not as overpriced as some of the others on this list. It's still attractive for both young professionals without kids to buy houses, as well as older adults without kids to remain in their houses after their kids have grown.