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To everyone saying "but this will be used for child porn!"... guess what else is used for that? The internet. Should we just ban the internet as a whole? I un

To everyone saying "but this will be used for child porn!"... guess what else is used for that? The internet. Should we just ban the internet as a whole? I understand the sentiment, but I hard disagree with it. Especially because this tool (and similar to it) can be used for good, and might be necessary in the future. Try to see the glass half-full.

yters 7y ago
But what is the need for Tor outside of illegal activity?
- johnnyRose 7y ago
  Plenty of reasons. The most obvious use that comes to mind is to avert government censorship. Then there are whistleblowers. There are more reasons to desire anonymity than illegal activity. Edit: also, ISPs can sell your browsing information now: https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/04/04/isps-can-now-collect-and-sell-your-data-what-know-internet-privacy/100015356/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/04/04/isps-can...
  - yters 7y ago
    Don't those governments just block Tor?
    - KnMn 7y ago
      You can use the Tor network through bridge nodes and in fact the Tor Browser Bundle will ask you if you need to connect this way on first run.
- thecrash 7y ago
  The more illuminating question is "what is the need for anonymity outside of illegal activity"? One answer is that you might someday like to say something which some other party would have a problem with. We might say that if you truly believe in what you're saying, the principled course would be to say your piece and let the other party be upset. But if the other party has a lot of power (for example a parent, an employer, a university, a government official, etc) they can threaten retribution for your words. If the threat is serious enough, you will likely decide not to speak. The ability to say things anonymously removes the threat of retribution. It helps people speak who otherwise wouldn't, increasing the range of perspectives and information the rest of us have access to. This doesn't mean that it's beneficial in every single case, but on balance it's a social good - in fact, it's a necessary component of a free society.
  - yters 7y ago
    Is that mostly what Tor is used for?
    - thecrash 7y ago
      It's pretty hard to evaluate. If you're asserting that Tor is used more for criminal purposes than non-criminal purposes, I think you might be right. But that would be a simplistic way to evaluate the impact of Tor (or really any tool) on society.
- zenography 7y ago
  Journalists, whistle blowers, people in oppressive countries, unjustly censored information, the government, etc. The Navy didn't Tor for criminals, so obviously there is a use case beyond that.
  - yters 7y ago
    Maybe the Navy is using Tor to trap criminals.
    - KnMn 7y ago
      If that's the case they've enabled a whole lot of criminal activity to trap relatively very few criminals so far.
      - yters 7y ago
        The Navy originally invented the protocol for clandestine communication. One of the contractors who wrote the software later open sourced it.
- KnMn 7y ago
  Sometimes illegal activity is an ethical necessity.
- matheusmoreira 7y ago
  Even perfectly legal activity can result in undesirable retribution. For example, some rich company could decide to sue a person in response to a negative review. Whistleblowers will almost certainly face retaliation if their anonymity is not guaranteed. Anonymous discussion boards are inherently more free: because there is no identity associated with opinions, there are no consequences for being wrong or politically incorrect and this leads to people speaking their minds without fear. Also, not everything that is illegal should be illegal. Civil disobedience is impossible in a monitored society.

yters 7y ago

But what is the need for Tor outside of illegal activity?

johnnyRose 7y ago
Plenty of reasons. The most obvious use that comes to mind is to avert government censorship. Then there are whistleblowers. There are more reasons to desire anonymity than illegal activity. Edit: also, ISPs can sell your browsing information now: https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/04/04/isps-can-now-collect-and-sell-your-data-what-know-internet-privacy/100015356/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/news/2017/04/04/isps-can...
- yters 7y ago
  Don't those governments just block Tor?
  - KnMn 7y ago
    You can use the Tor network through bridge nodes and in fact the Tor Browser Bundle will ask you if you need to connect this way on first run.
thecrash 7y ago
The more illuminating question is "what is the need for anonymity outside of illegal activity"? One answer is that you might someday like to say something which some other party would have a problem with. We might say that if you truly believe in what you're saying, the principled course would be to say your piece and let the other party be upset. But if the other party has a lot of power (for example a parent, an employer, a university, a government official, etc) they can threaten retribution for your words. If the threat is serious enough, you will likely decide not to speak. The ability to say things anonymously removes the threat of retribution. It helps people speak who otherwise wouldn't, increasing the range of perspectives and information the rest of us have access to. This doesn't mean that it's beneficial in every single case, but on balance it's a social good - in fact, it's a necessary component of a free society.
- yters 7y ago
  Is that mostly what Tor is used for?
  - thecrash 7y ago
    It's pretty hard to evaluate. If you're asserting that Tor is used more for criminal purposes than non-criminal purposes, I think you might be right. But that would be a simplistic way to evaluate the impact of Tor (or really any tool) on society.
zenography 7y ago
Journalists, whistle blowers, people in oppressive countries, unjustly censored information, the government, etc. The Navy didn't Tor for criminals, so obviously there is a use case beyond that.
- yters 7y ago
  Maybe the Navy is using Tor to trap criminals.
  - KnMn 7y ago
    If that's the case they've enabled a whole lot of criminal activity to trap relatively very few criminals so far.
    - yters 7y ago
      The Navy originally invented the protocol for clandestine communication. One of the contractors who wrote the software later open sourced it.
KnMn 7y ago
Sometimes illegal activity is an ethical necessity.
matheusmoreira 7y ago
Even perfectly legal activity can result in undesirable retribution. For example, some rich company could decide to sue a person in response to a negative review. Whistleblowers will almost certainly face retaliation if their anonymity is not guaranteed. Anonymous discussion boards are inherently more free: because there is no identity associated with opinions, there are no consequences for being wrong or politically incorrect and this leads to people speaking their minds without fear. Also, not everything that is illegal should be illegal. Civil disobedience is impossible in a monitored society.