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> No one needs them for discovering new software. There's also people that don't know that they need "Firefox", they just want a browser. Or a tool to print en

by dewey 7y ago

> No one needs them for discovering new software. There's also people that don't know that they need "Firefox", they just want a browser. Or a tool to print envelopes or crop an image. So they search in the app store and they know it'll probably be okay. If you search for this online you'd get a bunch of SEO spam sites, shady tools among other things. At least due to the developer fee and reviews there's at least some barrier of entry (Also if it's not perfect). > App stores leave me with all sorts of unwanted properties, namely Google / Apple throwing their unwanted opinion around. Search for Instagram in the iOS App Store: the top UI element is “InstaMap”, thanks Apple! Apple's search is notoriously bad and the perfect case to apply Hanlon's razor.

im3w1l 7y ago
In what sense will it be ok? Isn't a lot of the stuff in appstores spyware nowadays?
- dewey 7y ago
  While there is generally always some small percentage of apps that don't do what they promise and slip through the review I think I can be reasonably sure that if I download something from the macOS / iOS app store it'll do what they say. I trust it enough to believe it won't start crypto mining in the background or connect to random servers and sending the content of my computer somewhere. For the average user it's probably the better option than downloading the top Google result and just executing it.
  - cesarb 7y ago
    > I trust it enough to believe it won't start crypto mining in the background or connect to random servers and sending the content of my computer somewhere. The current migration towards more sandboxing also helps. For instance, Android has restrictions on how much an application can do in the background without showing up as a persistent notification, and xdg-app's sandboxing can restrict how much of the content of your computer an application can access without using a file open dialog.
  - im3w1l 7y ago
    Uh, what are you talking about? Phoning home with your data (mainly phonebook and location data) is exactly what a lot of apps are doing. Sure, they wont do crypto mining, but that's because it would drain your battery quickly, and people would notice and uninstall.
    - dewey 7y ago
      As I said, it can happen but I'd assume it's done a lot less than on the "open" internet where there's no repercussions. At least in the App Store the developer would get thrown out, people would post it in the reviews or report to the App Store moderators. Isn't the whole point of sandboxing and the permission systems exactly preventing phonebook and location data misuse? Especially location tracking prevention was a pretty big part of the iOS 13 announcements.
      - im3w1l 7y ago
        The permission system does work and is a great achievement. Along with battery monitor and the ability to easily and cleanly uninstall any app.
djsumdog 7y ago
I don't understand why we keep falling back to uneducated users in this discussions. "Oh we're tech heads; we're not the standard audience..." ... maybe the standard audience should bother to learn something. I live in a city now and no longer have my own tools/garage, but I know enough about my car to know the shop down the street was trying to screw me when they did a bait in switch, wanting to charge $950 for an alternator repair (and claimed my battery; less than a year old was bad). I called around, towed it to another shop and paid less than half of that...and the battery was perfectly fine. I should have checked the reviews on the first shop because they were some pretty bad ones. Now I know better, but there are a ton of people who just accept it, maybe because they're car was already towed there and they simply don't know any better.
- least 7y ago
  > I don't understand why we keep falling back to uneducated users in this discussions. Because that is the majority of the users and because it's hard to find reliable information on the internet even if you're willing to do the research into this sort of thing. I'm certain there are plenty of things that you are probably not knowledgable about and don't put the time to learn about as well.
danShumway 7y ago
> So they search in the app store and they know it'll probably be okay. Bad plan, both on iOS and Android. You should not be installing random apps unless you vet them first. People keep going back to the "users are stupid" argument, but (particularly on Android) the app store does not protect users. Installing random apps or trusting the first app that shows up is a terrible thing to teach dumb users to do. If you want to protect users to the point where they don't need to think at all, you need to be way more locked down than iOS/Android currently are -- you need Nintendo Switch levels of moderation, vetting, and sandboxing. The problem is that very few people (dumb users included) want that level of vetting for a smartphone.

by dewey 7y ago

im3w1l 7y ago

In what sense will it be ok? Isn't a lot of the stuff in appstores spyware nowadays?

dewey 7y ago
While there is generally always some small percentage of apps that don't do what they promise and slip through the review I think I can be reasonably sure that if I download something from the macOS / iOS app store it'll do what they say. I trust it enough to believe it won't start crypto mining in the background or connect to random servers and sending the content of my computer somewhere. For the average user it's probably the better option than downloading the top Google result and just executing it.
- cesarb 7y ago
  > I trust it enough to believe it won't start crypto mining in the background or connect to random servers and sending the content of my computer somewhere. The current migration towards more sandboxing also helps. For instance, Android has restrictions on how much an application can do in the background without showing up as a persistent notification, and xdg-app's sandboxing can restrict how much of the content of your computer an application can access without using a file open dialog.
- im3w1l 7y ago
  Uh, what are you talking about? Phoning home with your data (mainly phonebook and location data) is exactly what a lot of apps are doing. Sure, they wont do crypto mining, but that's because it would drain your battery quickly, and people would notice and uninstall.
  - dewey 7y ago
    As I said, it can happen but I'd assume it's done a lot less than on the "open" internet where there's no repercussions. At least in the App Store the developer would get thrown out, people would post it in the reviews or report to the App Store moderators. Isn't the whole point of sandboxing and the permission systems exactly preventing phonebook and location data misuse? Especially location tracking prevention was a pretty big part of the iOS 13 announcements.
    - im3w1l 7y ago
      The permission system does work and is a great achievement. Along with battery monitor and the ability to easily and cleanly uninstall any app.

djsumdog 7y ago

I don't understand why we keep falling back to uneducated users in this discussions. "Oh we're tech heads; we're not the standard audience..." ... maybe the standard audience should bother to learn something. I live in a city now and no longer have my own tools/garage, but I know enough about my car to know the shop down the street was trying to screw me when they did a bait in switch, wanting to charge $950 for an alternator repair (and claimed my battery; less than a year old was bad). I called around, towed it to another shop and paid less than half of that...and the battery was perfectly fine. I should have checked the reviews on the first shop because they were some pretty bad ones. Now I know better, but there are a ton of people who just accept it, maybe because they're car was already towed there and they simply don't know any better.

least 7y ago
> I don't understand why we keep falling back to uneducated users in this discussions. Because that is the majority of the users and because it's hard to find reliable information on the internet even if you're willing to do the research into this sort of thing. I'm certain there are plenty of things that you are probably not knowledgable about and don't put the time to learn about as well.

danShumway 7y ago

> So they search in the app store and they know it'll probably be okay. Bad plan, both on iOS and Android. You should not be installing random apps unless you vet them first. People keep going back to the "users are stupid" argument, but (particularly on Android) the app store does not protect users. Installing random apps or trusting the first app that shows up is a terrible thing to teach dumb users to do. If you want to protect users to the point where they don't need to think at all, you need to be way more locked down than iOS/Android currently are -- you need Nintendo Switch levels of moderation, vetting, and sandboxing. The problem is that very few people (dumb users included) want that level of vetting for a smartphone.