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Why are taxis given special treatment in cities? As a cyclist & public transport user it really frustrates me. In London they serve a tiny minority and cause th

by sails 7y ago

Why are taxis given special treatment in cities? As a cyclist & public transport user it really frustrates me. In London they serve a tiny minority and cause the bulk of the congestion relative to the population they serve. What would the outcome be of a total taxi ban in a major city? I imagine strikes, outcries etc, but no major disruption to the net ability for people to get around.

michaelt 7y ago
In theory, in cities without good metro systems, taxis are the train-station-to-business-district-or-hotel link needed for business visitors and tourists to travel by train rather than driving directly. Whether the same logic applies in London (which has a world-class metro system) is debatable, of course.
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
>Why are taxis given special treatment in cities? Because they are point to point transportation for the elderly and disabled.
- sails 7y ago
  Very interesting point, it seems that black cabs are specifically required to cater for the disabled [0]. I wonder what the utilisation of taxis by elderly and disabled looks like as a percentage of the total rides. I think finding some mechanism that reduces congestion while catering for this would be attainable. [0] https://www.gov.uk/transport-disabled/taxis-and-minicabs https://www.gov.uk/transport-disabled/taxis-and-minicabs
viraptor 7y ago
What do you mean by tiny minority? I feel like I'd have a problem finding an employed person in London who never used a standard black cab.
- Brakenshire 7y ago
  A very small percentage earn enough to be able to use them regularly. One five minute trip costs more than a TfL day pass.
  - greggman2 7y ago
    Is it possible they all use them once every few months? For example I've gone to a store, bought something rather large, and took it back to my apartment in a cab. I don't take a cab daily be I do take one once or twice a month. Note: I could try to get it delivered, that would generally require me taking a day off from work to be home for the delivery. With a cab I effectively get to choose the time.
- sails 7y ago
  I don't know of anyone using them _regularly_, or really at all for that matter.
  - viraptor 7y ago
    Ok, fair enough. I understood that as people not using them at all. I'm not surprised though - taxis are great for situations where you can't easily use public transport /for reasons/. Using them all the time is indeed for tiny minority. (And that's... Fine with me)
- lhopki01 7y ago
  Hi you've found me. 11 years working in London without taking a black cab. Taken an Uber once in those 11 years.
abdullahkhalids 7y ago
I am a public transit person also, but come on, there are lots of valid reasons for there being taxis, such as minor medical problems, bad weather, unsafe conditions at night, having to transport packages etc. It is indeed annoying that the rich just use them all the time, but I won't advocate cutting off the nose (preventing the rich from using taxis) to spite the face (letting regular folks using it for an emergency).
- sails 7y ago
  > valid reasons for there being taxis, such as minor medical problems, bad weather, unsafe conditions at night, having to transport packages etc. Agree with these, and have been glad for an on demand ride service for some of these, but I feel that these are the likely a small percentage of the total use, and that the system currently biases towards a catering for a minority indulgence rather than a general public good. Agree that it is a spiteful proposal. I'm very frustrated by the slow pedestrianisation of London, and the taxis are a key piece of this. I'm trying to find some example of how other Western European cities have pedestrianised their cities and dealt with the issue of taxis. Edit: A further thought: In London, taxis are given the same privilege as buses (they can use the bus lane). This comes to the crux of my issues with cabs in the city. I think the service can exist for the reasons indicated, but giving _an empty taxi_ the same privilege as a _full bus_ speaks to a decision made with different priorities. Not only does this slow down the 100x more people in the buses but it encourages use of taxis as a "rich person's bus" alternative to the tube.
bjourne 7y ago
> Why are taxis given special treatment in cities? Many handicapped people are dependent on (subsidized) taxi services.
- sails 7y ago
  Very good point, addressed further down / [here](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21269488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21269488)
Shivetya 7y ago
because in many cities they companies are held by very influential people who pretty much have a local politician or more in their pocket. the real danger in my city isn't taxi or uber/lyft, it is the ebike rentals. they are currently banned after dark and have caused over two hundred calls for injury to Atlanta fire services, plus four deaths involving the bikes
- dangus 7y ago
  That sounds bad but I encourage caution in using statistics this way as Atlanta is a big place. How many traditional bicycle deaths happen in Atlanta per year? How many calls for bicycle injuries happen a year? Just saying that e-bikes have 200 injury calls and 4 deaths is insufficient information to hold any opinion on them. Georgia has over 4 automobile deaths per day.
- vertex-four 7y ago
  How many of those injuries and deaths were due to a car?
ulfw 7y ago
Then how do you get in and out of London with lots of luggage from the airport? And please don't tell me 'schlepp 40kg up and down the tiny tube corridors and stairs and into crowded Central Line'.
- sails 7y ago
  I've done exactly that, no one's idea of fun, but what if you can't afford the alternative?
  - lghh 7y ago
    Then you don't do it
- vertis 7y ago
  As someone who has been a tourist in London multiple times, I've never done anything other than catch public transport in and out. Be it Heathrow or the other airports, they're all very accessible by public transport. More so than a lot of other international airports (for example Melbourne Tullamarine) If you fly in internationally the Heathrow Express also quickly deposits you at St Pancras. Unfortunately, despite the speed, it's not worth the additional cost in my opinion.

by sails 7y ago

michaelt 7y ago

In theory, in cities without good metro systems, taxis are the train-station-to-business-district-or-hotel link needed for business visitors and tourists to travel by train rather than driving directly. Whether the same logic applies in London (which has a world-class metro system) is debatable, of course.

dsfyu404ed 7y ago

>Why are taxis given special treatment in cities? Because they are point to point transportation for the elderly and disabled.

sails 7y ago
Very interesting point, it seems that black cabs are specifically required to cater for the disabled [0]. I wonder what the utilisation of taxis by elderly and disabled looks like as a percentage of the total rides. I think finding some mechanism that reduces congestion while catering for this would be attainable. [0] https://www.gov.uk/transport-disabled/taxis-and-minicabs https://www.gov.uk/transport-disabled/taxis-and-minicabs

viraptor 7y ago

What do you mean by tiny minority? I feel like I'd have a problem finding an employed person in London who never used a standard black cab.

Brakenshire 7y ago
A very small percentage earn enough to be able to use them regularly. One five minute trip costs more than a TfL day pass.
- greggman2 7y ago
  Is it possible they all use them once every few months? For example I've gone to a store, bought something rather large, and took it back to my apartment in a cab. I don't take a cab daily be I do take one once or twice a month. Note: I could try to get it delivered, that would generally require me taking a day off from work to be home for the delivery. With a cab I effectively get to choose the time.
sails 7y ago
I don't know of anyone using them _regularly_, or really at all for that matter.
- viraptor 7y ago
  Ok, fair enough. I understood that as people not using them at all. I'm not surprised though - taxis are great for situations where you can't easily use public transport /for reasons/. Using them all the time is indeed for tiny minority. (And that's... Fine with me)
lhopki01 7y ago
Hi you've found me. 11 years working in London without taking a black cab. Taken an Uber once in those 11 years.

abdullahkhalids 7y ago

I am a public transit person also, but come on, there are lots of valid reasons for there being taxis, such as minor medical problems, bad weather, unsafe conditions at night, having to transport packages etc. It is indeed annoying that the rich just use them all the time, but I won't advocate cutting off the nose (preventing the rich from using taxis) to spite the face (letting regular folks using it for an emergency).

sails 7y ago
> valid reasons for there being taxis, such as minor medical problems, bad weather, unsafe conditions at night, having to transport packages etc. Agree with these, and have been glad for an on demand ride service for some of these, but I feel that these are the likely a small percentage of the total use, and that the system currently biases towards a catering for a minority indulgence rather than a general public good. Agree that it is a spiteful proposal. I'm very frustrated by the slow pedestrianisation of London, and the taxis are a key piece of this. I'm trying to find some example of how other Western European cities have pedestrianised their cities and dealt with the issue of taxis. Edit: A further thought: In London, taxis are given the same privilege as buses (they can use the bus lane). This comes to the crux of my issues with cabs in the city. I think the service can exist for the reasons indicated, but giving _an empty taxi_ the same privilege as a _full bus_ speaks to a decision made with different priorities. Not only does this slow down the 100x more people in the buses but it encourages use of taxis as a "rich person's bus" alternative to the tube.

bjourne 7y ago

> Why are taxis given special treatment in cities? Many handicapped people are dependent on (subsidized) taxi services.

sails 7y ago
Very good point, addressed further down / [here](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21269488 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21269488)

Shivetya 7y ago

because in many cities they companies are held by very influential people who pretty much have a local politician or more in their pocket. the real danger in my city isn't taxi or uber/lyft, it is the ebike rentals. they are currently banned after dark and have caused over two hundred calls for injury to Atlanta fire services, plus four deaths involving the bikes

dangus 7y ago
That sounds bad but I encourage caution in using statistics this way as Atlanta is a big place. How many traditional bicycle deaths happen in Atlanta per year? How many calls for bicycle injuries happen a year? Just saying that e-bikes have 200 injury calls and 4 deaths is insufficient information to hold any opinion on them. Georgia has over 4 automobile deaths per day.
vertex-four 7y ago
How many of those injuries and deaths were due to a car?

ulfw 7y ago

Then how do you get in and out of London with lots of luggage from the airport? And please don't tell me 'schlepp 40kg up and down the tiny tube corridors and stairs and into crowded Central Line'.

sails 7y ago
I've done exactly that, no one's idea of fun, but what if you can't afford the alternative?
- lghh 7y ago
  Then you don't do it
vertis 7y ago
As someone who has been a tourist in London multiple times, I've never done anything other than catch public transport in and out. Be it Heathrow or the other airports, they're all very accessible by public transport. More so than a lot of other international airports (for example Melbourne Tullamarine) If you fly in internationally the Heathrow Express also quickly deposits you at St Pancras. Unfortunately, despite the speed, it's not worth the additional cost in my opinion.