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>So you're saying the point is to not hurt neo-nazi's feelings, because if you're nice to them, they wouldn't recruit so many people to their cause? No, I did

>So you're saying the point is to not hurt neo-nazi's feelings, because if you're nice to them, they wouldn't recruit so many people to their cause? No, I did not say that. I said to treat them as human beings and not deliberately antagonize them with stupid insults. And to take the power of "victimhood" and "underdogness" from them, which they use, like all extremists, as a powerful recruiting tool. Al Quaida and IS do it, the nazis do it. Trump does it. Because it works. >because if you're nice to them, they wouldn't recruit so many people to their cause? Did not say that either. >Are your own feelings hurt that Milo Yiannopoulos Go fuck yourself, trying to paint me in that corner. And since you so nicely referred to that wiki, let me refer to it myself. >https://geekfeminism.wikia.org/wiki/Derailment https://geekfeminism.wikia.org/wiki/Derailment

DonHopkins 7y ago
Gee, I thought your argument was based on the presumption that you were able to engage people in polite civil conversation and change their opinions with calm, logical arguments, and citations to facts and evidence. How is that working out for you? If you can't change my opinion that your tired old Tone Argument is invalid by telling me to go fuck myself, then how is your polite fight against the neo-nazis on Twitter going? Have you taken your campaign to Telegraph so you can try to change Milo Yiannopoulos's mind without hurting his feelings and making him feel victimized? Because he's not on Twitter any more.
- rndgermandude 7y ago
  I don't wanna change your opinions. You're not my enemy just a sad troll. And I have you know I volunteered for Exit in my youth, and we actually helped quite a few neo-nazis quit. The first step was to actually get in touch with them. Not calling them "nazis scum" and screaming "DIE DIE DIE" in their direction helped with that. https://www.exit-deutschland.de/exit/?c=ueber-uns https://www.exit-deutschland.de/exit/?c=ueber-uns What did you do lately other than bullying people on the internet?
  - DonHopkins 7y ago
    Feeling victimized?
  - pluma 7y ago
    Projects like Exit are important to rehabilitate nazis. Deplatforming and silencing are important to shut down recruitment. Not every person facing hardship becomes a nazi. It's true that as a society we need to fix the social problems making people vulnerable to nazi recruitment, but we also need to shut down the recruitment wherever possible and allowing it to happen in the open has only resulted in more nazis, not fewer. You're right that insulting them is unproductive. But giving them a platform is far worse, even -- no, especially! -- when it's "just for debate". Because nazis don't use a debate to defend their arguments, they use it to shape public opinion and knowingly misrepresent facts to create an appealing narrative, and it takes more time, effort and credibility to deconstruct this narrative than to just put it out there. Compared to the modern Identitarian movement and international white supremacists, the 1990s German neo-nazis were target practice.

DonHopkins 7y ago

Gee, I thought your argument was based on the presumption that you were able to engage people in polite civil conversation and change their opinions with calm, logical arguments, and citations to facts and evidence. How is that working out for you? If you can't change my opinion that your tired old Tone Argument is invalid by telling me to go fuck myself, then how is your polite fight against the neo-nazis on Twitter going? Have you taken your campaign to Telegraph so you can try to change Milo Yiannopoulos's mind without hurting his feelings and making him feel victimized? Because he's not on Twitter any more.

rndgermandude 7y ago
I don't wanna change your opinions. You're not my enemy just a sad troll. And I have you know I volunteered for Exit in my youth, and we actually helped quite a few neo-nazis quit. The first step was to actually get in touch with them. Not calling them "nazis scum" and screaming "DIE DIE DIE" in their direction helped with that. https://www.exit-deutschland.de/exit/?c=ueber-uns https://www.exit-deutschland.de/exit/?c=ueber-uns What did you do lately other than bullying people on the internet?
- DonHopkins 7y ago
  Feeling victimized?
- pluma 7y ago
  Projects like Exit are important to rehabilitate nazis. Deplatforming and silencing are important to shut down recruitment. Not every person facing hardship becomes a nazi. It's true that as a society we need to fix the social problems making people vulnerable to nazi recruitment, but we also need to shut down the recruitment wherever possible and allowing it to happen in the open has only resulted in more nazis, not fewer. You're right that insulting them is unproductive. But giving them a platform is far worse, even -- no, especially! -- when it's "just for debate". Because nazis don't use a debate to defend their arguments, they use it to shape public opinion and knowingly misrepresent facts to create an appealing narrative, and it takes more time, effort and credibility to deconstruct this narrative than to just put it out there. Compared to the modern Identitarian movement and international white supremacists, the 1990s German neo-nazis were target practice.