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The point is not to win stupid internet arguments with people so deeply caught in their cognitive dissonance there is no escaping for them anymore anyway. The

The point is not to win stupid internet arguments with people so deeply caught in their cognitive dissonance there is no escaping for them anymore anyway. The point is to prevent them feeling victimized and recruiting other people by stating they are victimized and censored. Do not underestimate the underdog effect. The point is to engage them, debunk them, as thoroughly and publicly as possible to disinfect people who are on the verge of being recruited. The point is not to insult and belittle and censor that blue collar worker deplorable because that person voiced some concerns about immigration for example (even misguided or even racist), because when you do, you create another Trump voter who might even go to a White Supremacists rally later, because at least those people take that person "seriously" (or at least pretend they do) instead of throwing a wave of name calling and open hatred. The point is to have give the nazis and also the disenfranchised but usually also very hateful and misguided young, mostly white, mostly male fellow human being some people so eagerly call "incels" a place where they can vent their bullshit instead of venting it on the 8ch clones populated only with like-minded people pushing each other further and further, and also keep to an eye on them. And maybe, just maybe, by not always being a total asshole to them (even tho they are total assholes to other people), not going for the easy "you're an incel nazi scum" kill, you will brick by brick dismantle their wall of mouthfoaming ideology. Like this guy does rather successfully: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daryl_Davis You might know him already; he is a the black musician who went out and actually talked to KKK members and now has a nice collection of KKK robes from people he convinced to quit.

DonHopkins 7y ago
>The point is to prevent them feeling victimized and recruiting other people by stating they are victimized and censored. Do not underestimate the underdog effect. So you're saying the point is to not hurt neo-nazi's feelings, because if you're nice to them, they wouldn't recruit so many people to their cause? Sounds like you're making the old Tone Argument to me. https://geekfeminism.wikia.org/wiki/Tone_argument https://geekfeminism.wikia.org/wiki/Tone_argument Boo fucking hoo. Fuck their feelings. They'll recruit as many people as they can whether you treat them nicely or not. But booting them from twitter and other platforms drastically reduces the number of people they can recruit, and the amount of money they can raise. Are your own feelings hurt that Milo Yiannopoulos had to sell his own web site because he's so starved for cash he "couldn't put food on the table" after Twitter de-platformed him? Hurray for Twitter doing that, at least! https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2019/10/milo-yiannopoulos-apparently-sold-website-hes-starved-cash/ https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2019/10/milo-yiannopoulos-appare... >Milo Yiannopoulos apparently sold his website because he’s starved for cash >He was just saying that he couldn't "put food on the table." Now he has sold his website. Is he done? https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2019/09/poor-milo-yiannopoulos-cant-put-food-table-despite-selling-lgbtq-people/ https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2019/09/poor-milo-yiannopoulos-c... >Poor Milo Yiannopoulos ‘can’t put food on the table’ despite selling out LGBTQ people >“I’m clinging on for dear life," says the gay gadfly who made his career rubbing shoulders with neo-Nazis. They should have taught him the meaning of "schadenfreude." https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2018/08/milo-yiannopolis-epic-meltdown-facebook-tears-delicious/ https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2018/08/milo-yiannopolis-epic-me... >Milo Yiannopoulos had an epic meltdown on Facebook & the tears are delicious >Sure, he spends $7500 on a night out, but he's broke and you need to send him more money. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/59n99q/milo-yiannopoulos-says-hes-broke https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/59n99q/milo-yiannopoulos-... >Milo Yiannopoulos Says He's Broke >“I can’t put food on the table this way.” https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/yiannopoulos-complains-telegram/ https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/yiannopoulos-complains-teleg... >Milo Yiannopoulos is dissatisfied with the living he makes from Telegram >20K followers just isn’t cutting it. >Former Breitbart writer Milo Yiannopoulos is among the perennially banned members of the far-right and conspiracy theory set who have found a new home on Telegram. >In spite of having 19,100 followers, one of the largest among his shunned cohorts who migrated to the messaging app, Yiannopoulos is not satisfied with his experience. Specifically, he’s mad that he a) doesn’t have more members and subscribers and b) the small size of his following is cutting into his bottom line. >In a lengthy thread unearthed by Twitter user @witchofpeace, the self-styled “pop star of hate” complains profusely about his paltry 470 subscribers and “microscopic followings like 20K,” which he says “are not going to sustain people like me.” https://twitter.com/witchofpeace/status/1170945244185210881 https://twitter.com/witchofpeace/status/1170945244185210881 >Milo reveals just how much the far right are struggling after being deplatformed from the main social media sites.
- rndgermandude 7y ago
  >So you're saying the point is to not hurt neo-nazi's feelings, because if you're nice to them, they wouldn't recruit so many people to their cause? No, I did not say that. I said to treat them as human beings and not deliberately antagonize them with stupid insults. And to take the power of "victimhood" and "underdogness" from them, which they use, like all extremists, as a powerful recruiting tool. Al Quaida and IS do it, the nazis do it. Trump does it. Because it works. >because if you're nice to them, they wouldn't recruit so many people to their cause? Did not say that either. >Are your own feelings hurt that Milo Yiannopoulos Go fuck yourself, trying to paint me in that corner. And since you so nicely referred to that wiki, let me refer to it myself. >https://geekfeminism.wikia.org/wiki/Derailment https://geekfeminism.wikia.org/wiki/Derailment
  - DonHopkins 7y ago
    Gee, I thought your argument was based on the presumption that you were able to engage people in polite civil conversation and change their opinions with calm, logical arguments, and citations to facts and evidence. How is that working out for you? If you can't change my opinion that your tired old Tone Argument is invalid by telling me to go fuck myself, then how is your polite fight against the neo-nazis on Twitter going? Have you taken your campaign to Telegraph so you can try to change Milo Yiannopoulos's mind without hurting his feelings and making him feel victimized? Because he's not on Twitter any more.
    - rndgermandude 7y ago
      I don't wanna change your opinions. You're not my enemy just a sad troll. And I have you know I volunteered for Exit in my youth, and we actually helped quite a few neo-nazis quit. The first step was to actually get in touch with them. Not calling them "nazis scum" and screaming "DIE DIE DIE" in their direction helped with that. https://www.exit-deutschland.de/exit/?c=ueber-uns https://www.exit-deutschland.de/exit/?c=ueber-uns What did you do lately other than bullying people on the internet?
      - 7y ago

DonHopkins 7y ago

>The point is to prevent them feeling victimized and recruiting other people by stating they are victimized and censored. Do not underestimate the underdog effect. So you're saying the point is to not hurt neo-nazi's feelings, because if you're nice to them, they wouldn't recruit so many people to their cause? Sounds like you're making the old Tone Argument to me. https://geekfeminism.wikia.org/wiki/Tone_argument https://geekfeminism.wikia.org/wiki/Tone_argument Boo fucking hoo. Fuck their feelings. They'll recruit as many people as they can whether you treat them nicely or not. But booting them from twitter and other platforms drastically reduces the number of people they can recruit, and the amount of money they can raise. Are your own feelings hurt that Milo Yiannopoulos had to sell his own web site because he's so starved for cash he "couldn't put food on the table" after Twitter de-platformed him? Hurray for Twitter doing that, at least! https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2019/10/milo-yiannopoulos-apparently-sold-website-hes-starved-cash/ https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2019/10/milo-yiannopoulos-appare... >Milo Yiannopoulos apparently sold his website because he’s starved for cash >He was just saying that he couldn't "put food on the table." Now he has sold his website. Is he done? https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2019/09/poor-milo-yiannopoulos-cant-put-food-table-despite-selling-lgbtq-people/ https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2019/09/poor-milo-yiannopoulos-c... >Poor Milo Yiannopoulos ‘can’t put food on the table’ despite selling out LGBTQ people >“I’m clinging on for dear life," says the gay gadfly who made his career rubbing shoulders with neo-Nazis. They should have taught him the meaning of "schadenfreude." https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2018/08/milo-yiannopolis-epic-meltdown-facebook-tears-delicious/ https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2018/08/milo-yiannopolis-epic-me... >Milo Yiannopoulos had an epic meltdown on Facebook & the tears are delicious >Sure, he spends $7500 on a night out, but he's broke and you need to send him more money. https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/59n99q/milo-yiannopoulos-says-hes-broke https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/59n99q/milo-yiannopoulos-... >Milo Yiannopoulos Says He's Broke >“I can’t put food on the table this way.” https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/yiannopoulos-complains-telegram/ https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/yiannopoulos-complains-teleg... >Milo Yiannopoulos is dissatisfied with the living he makes from Telegram >20K followers just isn’t cutting it. >Former Breitbart writer Milo Yiannopoulos is among the perennially banned members of the far-right and conspiracy theory set who have found a new home on Telegram. >In spite of having 19,100 followers, one of the largest among his shunned cohorts who migrated to the messaging app, Yiannopoulos is not satisfied with his experience. Specifically, he’s mad that he a) doesn’t have more members and subscribers and b) the small size of his following is cutting into his bottom line. >In a lengthy thread unearthed by Twitter user @witchofpeace, the self-styled “pop star of hate” complains profusely about his paltry 470 subscribers and “microscopic followings like 20K,” which he says “are not going to sustain people like me.” https://twitter.com/witchofpeace/status/1170945244185210881 https://twitter.com/witchofpeace/status/1170945244185210881 >Milo reveals just how much the far right are struggling after being deplatformed from the main social media sites.

rndgermandude 7y ago
>So you're saying the point is to not hurt neo-nazi's feelings, because if you're nice to them, they wouldn't recruit so many people to their cause? No, I did not say that. I said to treat them as human beings and not deliberately antagonize them with stupid insults. And to take the power of "victimhood" and "underdogness" from them, which they use, like all extremists, as a powerful recruiting tool. Al Quaida and IS do it, the nazis do it. Trump does it. Because it works. >because if you're nice to them, they wouldn't recruit so many people to their cause? Did not say that either. >Are your own feelings hurt that Milo Yiannopoulos Go fuck yourself, trying to paint me in that corner. And since you so nicely referred to that wiki, let me refer to it myself. >https://geekfeminism.wikia.org/wiki/Derailment https://geekfeminism.wikia.org/wiki/Derailment
- DonHopkins 7y ago
  Gee, I thought your argument was based on the presumption that you were able to engage people in polite civil conversation and change their opinions with calm, logical arguments, and citations to facts and evidence. How is that working out for you? If you can't change my opinion that your tired old Tone Argument is invalid by telling me to go fuck myself, then how is your polite fight against the neo-nazis on Twitter going? Have you taken your campaign to Telegraph so you can try to change Milo Yiannopoulos's mind without hurting his feelings and making him feel victimized? Because he's not on Twitter any more.
  - rndgermandude 7y ago
    I don't wanna change your opinions. You're not my enemy just a sad troll. And I have you know I volunteered for Exit in my youth, and we actually helped quite a few neo-nazis quit. The first step was to actually get in touch with them. Not calling them "nazis scum" and screaming "DIE DIE DIE" in their direction helped with that. https://www.exit-deutschland.de/exit/?c=ueber-uns https://www.exit-deutschland.de/exit/?c=ueber-uns What did you do lately other than bullying people on the internet?
    - 7y ago