4 ms·

I'm curious about whether you're remembering the spelling correctly -- I did a quick google for "char sui" but couldn't find it, and found the other thing I do

I'm curious about whether you're remembering the spelling correctly -- I did a quick google for "char sui" but couldn't find it, and found the other thing I do know, which is "char siu," a kind of marinated/roasted pork.

benj111 7y ago
At the risk of appearing posher than I am, there's this [1], along with other links, I'm not sure if they refer to the same thing though. [1] https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/waitrose-chinese-char-sui-pork/885142-555473-555474 https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/waitrose-chinese-char...
- sdrothrock 7y ago
  I think they refer to the pork I was thinking about -- the listing has a typo, but the packaging says "char siu pork." :) Just to be clear, that's not related to chop suey.
  - benj111 7y ago
    Good point, Waitrose have obviously gone downhill, interestingly Tesco seem to have made the same mistake [1]. As counter examples I've found references the char sui chicken [2] and venison [3]. But I think you're right that it started off as pork, and not chop suey. So I could 'legitimately' order char sui tsa sui? How am I pronouncing the 'tsa'? [1]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/300497160&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwj89tKswqDlAhUBL1AKHSBRCOMQFjAPegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw3zSIDNFY-cwFUpL50hThWM https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.tesco.com/groceries... [2]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D8VwqY0GTJ2s&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwifq6GGwKDlAhWCEVAKHYfED7I4ChC3AjAFegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw0jDH-j8VUaY2vGX9iERIhX https://www.google.com/url?q=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv... [3]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DKExjJj8TLsw&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwifq6GGwKDlAhWCEVAKHYfED7I4ChC3AjAGegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw1WC6xb6yTZa58uW7BHjNYQ https://www.google.com/url?q=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv...
    - sdrothrock 7y ago
      > So I could 'legitimately' order char sui tsa sui? Not really, for a couple of reasons. The "r" in "char" is a rising tone, which is distinct and different from the "tsa" in "tsa sui" (Mandarin) or "tsap" in "tsap seui" (Cantonese). > How am I pronouncing the 'tsa'? The "tsa" and "tsap" are (and I can't confirm this 100% since I only speak rudimentary Mandarin) most likely sharp falling tones, like when you say "Shit!" If you say "cha" with that tone, odds are that it'll sound like "chop" with the p not being very strong. The closest approximation is probably saying something like "it's a" but without the "i" and in the tone/falling pitch of a curse, like "Fuck!" They're very distinctly different in most Chinese dialects, and Cantonese and Mandarin are distinctly different dialects themselves. The other reason you couldn't say "char sui tsa sui" is that "char sui" (correctly, "char siu") is from Cantonese, but "tsa sui" is from Mandarin, so you can't really use them together. Another issue is that foods don't always work like that -- imagine trying to go to the pub and ask for "salmon and chips" someone unfamiliar with pub culture and English might imagine that it's just fish and chips with salmon being the type of fried fish specified (not knowing that you can't specify the fish), or someone else might expect grilled salmon with chips on the side, but odds are you might not get anything at all because it's not something anyone usually serves. :)
      - benj111 7y ago
        "The other reason you couldn't say "char sui tsa sui" is that "char sui" (correctly, "char siu") is from Cantonese, but "tsa sui" is from Mandarin, so you can't really use them together" People do that all the time. My favourite example is Lake Windermere. Where Windermere is lake in 2 other languages. And half the rivers in the UK seem to be named river in another language. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_river_name_etymologies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_river_name_etymologi...
        sdrothrock 7y ago
        I think that's different because it's a name. Here, you have two different names that you're trying to use to order a food that doesn't exist, so it's a bit different than something with a shared etymology and history. It would be like walking into a pub (again) and asking for "tako and chips," where "tako" is Japanese for "octopus." There's no guarantee that the dish exists or that the person you're talking to even knows what "tako" is. Mandarin and Cantonese are essentially completely different languages, so you're just mixing phrases that the other person probably doesn't know.

benj111 7y ago

At the risk of appearing posher than I am, there's this [1], along with other links, I'm not sure if they refer to the same thing though. [1] https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/waitrose-chinese-char-sui-pork/885142-555473-555474 https://www.waitrose.com/ecom/products/waitrose-chinese-char...

sdrothrock 7y ago
I think they refer to the pork I was thinking about -- the listing has a typo, but the packaging says "char siu pork." :) Just to be clear, that's not related to chop suey.
- benj111 7y ago
  Good point, Waitrose have obviously gone downhill, interestingly Tesco seem to have made the same mistake [1]. As counter examples I've found references the char sui chicken [2] and venison [3]. But I think you're right that it started off as pork, and not chop suey. So I could 'legitimately' order char sui tsa sui? How am I pronouncing the 'tsa'? [1]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/300497160&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwj89tKswqDlAhUBL1AKHSBRCOMQFjAPegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw3zSIDNFY-cwFUpL50hThWM https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.tesco.com/groceries... [2]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3D8VwqY0GTJ2s&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwifq6GGwKDlAhWCEVAKHYfED7I4ChC3AjAFegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw0jDH-j8VUaY2vGX9iERIhX https://www.google.com/url?q=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv... [3]https://www.google.com/url?q=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DKExjJj8TLsw&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwifq6GGwKDlAhWCEVAKHYfED7I4ChC3AjAGegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw1WC6xb6yTZa58uW7BHjNYQ https://www.google.com/url?q=https://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv...
  - sdrothrock 7y ago
    > So I could 'legitimately' order char sui tsa sui? Not really, for a couple of reasons. The "r" in "char" is a rising tone, which is distinct and different from the "tsa" in "tsa sui" (Mandarin) or "tsap" in "tsap seui" (Cantonese). > How am I pronouncing the 'tsa'? The "tsa" and "tsap" are (and I can't confirm this 100% since I only speak rudimentary Mandarin) most likely sharp falling tones, like when you say "Shit!" If you say "cha" with that tone, odds are that it'll sound like "chop" with the p not being very strong. The closest approximation is probably saying something like "it's a" but without the "i" and in the tone/falling pitch of a curse, like "Fuck!" They're very distinctly different in most Chinese dialects, and Cantonese and Mandarin are distinctly different dialects themselves. The other reason you couldn't say "char sui tsa sui" is that "char sui" (correctly, "char siu") is from Cantonese, but "tsa sui" is from Mandarin, so you can't really use them together. Another issue is that foods don't always work like that -- imagine trying to go to the pub and ask for "salmon and chips" someone unfamiliar with pub culture and English might imagine that it's just fish and chips with salmon being the type of fried fish specified (not knowing that you can't specify the fish), or someone else might expect grilled salmon with chips on the side, but odds are you might not get anything at all because it's not something anyone usually serves. :)
    - benj111 7y ago
      "The other reason you couldn't say "char sui tsa sui" is that "char sui" (correctly, "char siu") is from Cantonese, but "tsa sui" is from Mandarin, so you can't really use them together" People do that all the time. My favourite example is Lake Windermere. Where Windermere is lake in 2 other languages. And half the rivers in the UK seem to be named river in another language. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_river_name_etymologies https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_river_name_etymologi...
      - sdrothrock 7y ago
        I think that's different because it's a name. Here, you have two different names that you're trying to use to order a food that doesn't exist, so it's a bit different than something with a shared etymology and history. It would be like walking into a pub (again) and asking for "tako and chips," where "tako" is Japanese for "octopus." There's no guarantee that the dish exists or that the person you're talking to even knows what "tako" is. Mandarin and Cantonese are essentially completely different languages, so you're just mixing phrases that the other person probably doesn't know.