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> Instead of concerning ourselves with ensuring safe spaces for students, we need to create more spaces in which constructive conflict can occur. This is incre

> Instead of concerning ourselves with ensuring safe spaces for students, we need to create more spaces in which constructive conflict can occur. This is incredibly naive, and misunderstands what a safe space is and what it is for. Many humans suffer from, for example: * PTSD from abuse, war, or other trauma * Neuroatypical behaviors that are mocked/belittled/ignored in the wider public (e.g. Crowd anxiety, tics, nervous behaviors, misreading social cues, etc.) * Being Queer in an environment that is actively hostile * Being a minority in some other capacity (racial, gender, cultural, ableness, economic, political, etc.) Just existing in society can be high pressure and stressful -- a level of background noise in your daily life that most people don't see or recognize. A safe space is a place where you can let your guard down a bit, where you can simply be who you are without being challenged about it constantly. I genuinely believe that having these spaces is a healthy thing for everyone who is in a stressful minority position. It doesn't matter if you are a trans kid at some university or a conservative tech worker in silicon valley -- having a place where you can feel comfortable and not judged for who you are is valuable. It does no one any good if we're all operating at maximum stress all the time. > Trust me, no one will get hurt. Unfortunately, as a queer person myself, I don't believe you. Polite conversation is a nice ideal, but things can escalate quickly if two people have fundamental disagreements. Despite the adage about sticks and stones, words can hurt people and lead to outcomes like self harm and suicide, removal from a community, etc.

remarkEon 7y ago
If you have problems with situations in which you are around people with whom you disagree, constantly insulating yourself from those situations sounds like a foolproof way to guarantee that you will always be stressed out and terrified of social interaction.
- Pfhreak 7y ago
  I didn't say constantly. And it's not that simple. "just get over it" unfortunately puts the onus on someone who for various reasons might not be equipped with the ability to do so alone.
RHSeeger 7y ago
Unfortunately, there is a strong push for the safe spaces to be the entire space; like the entire college campus. If the entirety of where one spends there time is a safe space and, as such, closed to debate, then growth is impossible. I totally get that there needs to be places where people can go to avoid conflict, but that can't be everywhere. Conflict and debate are important parts of life.
- Pfhreak 7y ago
  I agree, and I think most folks who advocate for safe spaces also agree. But I suspect we won't find much data to back either of our assertions.
  - AstralStorm 7y ago
    Given it is a subbranch of psychology and a more idealistic one that came up with the concept, I bet there is less than zero data on efficacy of safe spaces for anything. And what is out there is more than 80% likely to be wrong or irreproducible. If something is not effective, the only reason to do it is ideology and politics. Nobody needs even more of those on campuses.
  - GauntletWizard 7y ago
    Most people who advocate for safe spaces would agree. But that is not the same as saying that most safe-space advocacy is for the smaller definition of safe spaces. Most advocacy tends to come from those with extreme positions - A textbook definitions of a long-tailed curve.
jofer 7y ago
I completely agree! Words really, really, really can be triggering and devastating. Perhaps a better way to phrase the argument in favor to discussing divisive topics is that it helps us develop empathy for people who don't share our viewpoints. It's not that we need to constantly berate people with them. It's not even that the conversations need to happen writ large in public (majority always wins in that case). However, it is vital that to try to understand where people are coming from. A good way to do that is by discussing things like religion and politics in small groups. It's good to have an honest conversation about divisive topics with someone who disagrees with them. It's bad to have a one-sided shouting match or even to have the case where it's 10-1 in a polite conversation and the 1 never speaks. I think college is a good place to have these discussions. I feel like I gained a lot from the types of classes and discussions this article describes even at a time when I was extremely emotionally fragile and trying to recover from things I didn't fully understand yet. A places where people feel like they can "just be" is utterly critical. However, if we can't _also_ create some environments where people can talk honestly and learn to empathize with people who see things differently we risk losing out on a more welcoming and understanding society.

remarkEon 7y ago

If you have problems with situations in which you are around people with whom you disagree, constantly insulating yourself from those situations sounds like a foolproof way to guarantee that you will always be stressed out and terrified of social interaction.

Pfhreak 7y ago
I didn't say constantly. And it's not that simple. "just get over it" unfortunately puts the onus on someone who for various reasons might not be equipped with the ability to do so alone.

RHSeeger 7y ago

Unfortunately, there is a strong push for the safe spaces to be the entire space; like the entire college campus. If the entirety of where one spends there time is a safe space and, as such, closed to debate, then growth is impossible. I totally get that there needs to be places where people can go to avoid conflict, but that can't be everywhere. Conflict and debate are important parts of life.

Pfhreak 7y ago
I agree, and I think most folks who advocate for safe spaces also agree. But I suspect we won't find much data to back either of our assertions.
- AstralStorm 7y ago
  Given it is a subbranch of psychology and a more idealistic one that came up with the concept, I bet there is less than zero data on efficacy of safe spaces for anything. And what is out there is more than 80% likely to be wrong or irreproducible. If something is not effective, the only reason to do it is ideology and politics. Nobody needs even more of those on campuses.
- GauntletWizard 7y ago
  Most people who advocate for safe spaces would agree. But that is not the same as saying that most safe-space advocacy is for the smaller definition of safe spaces. Most advocacy tends to come from those with extreme positions - A textbook definitions of a long-tailed curve.

jofer 7y ago

I completely agree! Words really, really, really can be triggering and devastating. Perhaps a better way to phrase the argument in favor to discussing divisive topics is that it helps us develop empathy for people who don't share our viewpoints. It's not that we need to constantly berate people with them. It's not even that the conversations need to happen writ large in public (majority always wins in that case). However, it is vital that to try to understand where people are coming from. A good way to do that is by discussing things like religion and politics in small groups. It's good to have an honest conversation about divisive topics with someone who disagrees with them. It's bad to have a one-sided shouting match or even to have the case where it's 10-1 in a polite conversation and the 1 never speaks. I think college is a good place to have these discussions. I feel like I gained a lot from the types of classes and discussions this article describes even at a time when I was extremely emotionally fragile and trying to recover from things I didn't fully understand yet. A places where people feel like they can "just be" is utterly critical. However, if we can't _also_ create some environments where people can talk honestly and learn to empathize with people who see things differently we risk losing out on a more welcoming and understanding society.