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> There is no hard data we know of that proves whether NVC actually improves relationships and resolves conflict Just like in “Crucial Conversations” this just

by lxe 7y ago

> There is no hard data we know of that proves whether NVC actually improves relationships and resolves conflict Just like in “Crucial Conversations” this just tries to make empathy formulaic. Formulaic communication techniques come across as dishonest. A better advice is to be hyper aware of what the other party is trying to convey, whether they are using “violent” or nonviolent way of conveying it, and respond according to whatever each unique situation calls for.

hacknat 7y ago
I read through NVC, and it is more than that. It would be really hard to prove that any system improved relationships because of confounding variables. You’d need a 24hour judge to make sure that you weren’t violating the “rules” or whatever. That being said, NVC isn’t a panacea. I think the most useful thing it does though is helps you to change language patterns. There are a lot of incorrect language aphorisms, especially in America English because at best they cause confusion and at worse they cause conflict. Small example, try to see how many times you catch yourself or someone else saying, “I feel that...” followed by a bunch of words that are actually their opinions or thoughts. I actually think NVC is more of a great diagnostic tool then it is a set of practices. Communicating non-violently isn’t just about being “good” it is often, just as much, learning how to express reality more accurately. NVC is great at pointing out errors of thought and communication it really doesn’t try to say how to go about stopping yourself from doing it.
diminoten 7y ago
Crucial Conversations was good for me, if for no other reason than it created a shared vocabulary for me to communicate with my boss. The #1 I got out of it was to create safety. If someone doesn't feel safe, you're not getting the "real" them, you're getting their defensive self, which is usually an asshole. Everything else is about how you create that safety, but honestly it's not hard once you know what you're trying to do. The problem is that creating safety takes effort, and a lot of times it's just not worth it...
nhumrich 7y ago
The formulas are to help us internalize the behavior. Having a crucial conversation is behavior change. We need to change ourselves. The formula helps us see the paths to change. Overtime, as you apply the formula, the underlying behavior sticks, and you forget the formula. So yes, while formulaic empathy feels dishonest, it will eventually lead to you being genuinely more empathetic.
- rimliu 7y ago
  Sometimes it is just cargo-culting.
mettamage 7y ago
> Formulaic communication techniques come across as dishonest. IMO saying things like: use empathy are also suboptimal ways of teaching people about communication. Because those type of statements are quite vague and ambiguous and ambiguity leads to mystery. One of the cool things about our 'modern' way of thinking is the idea that we try to demistify everything and really understand how things work. I think this should be the same with regards to learning how to communicate. Ideally that is: no mystery, only reliable knowledge that helps towards the goal of a better life for everyone. And yes, that is asking for a lot and will take centuries, but I believe it's worth it.
rimliu 7y ago
It's like trying to teach someone without any sense of rhythm, pitch, and tempo to play music. Yes, they can learn to do the mechanics, but the result will not be enjoyable.

by lxe 7y ago

hacknat 7y ago

I read through NVC, and it is more than that. It would be really hard to prove that any system improved relationships because of confounding variables. You’d need a 24hour judge to make sure that you weren’t violating the “rules” or whatever. That being said, NVC isn’t a panacea. I think the most useful thing it does though is helps you to change language patterns. There are a lot of incorrect language aphorisms, especially in America English because at best they cause confusion and at worse they cause conflict. Small example, try to see how many times you catch yourself or someone else saying, “I feel that...” followed by a bunch of words that are actually their opinions or thoughts. I actually think NVC is more of a great diagnostic tool then it is a set of practices. Communicating non-violently isn’t just about being “good” it is often, just as much, learning how to express reality more accurately. NVC is great at pointing out errors of thought and communication it really doesn’t try to say how to go about stopping yourself from doing it.

diminoten 7y ago

Crucial Conversations was good for me, if for no other reason than it created a shared vocabulary for me to communicate with my boss. The #1 I got out of it was to create safety. If someone doesn't feel safe, you're not getting the "real" them, you're getting their defensive self, which is usually an asshole. Everything else is about how you create that safety, but honestly it's not hard once you know what you're trying to do. The problem is that creating safety takes effort, and a lot of times it's just not worth it...

nhumrich 7y ago

The formulas are to help us internalize the behavior. Having a crucial conversation is behavior change. We need to change ourselves. The formula helps us see the paths to change. Overtime, as you apply the formula, the underlying behavior sticks, and you forget the formula. So yes, while formulaic empathy feels dishonest, it will eventually lead to you being genuinely more empathetic.

rimliu 7y ago
Sometimes it is just cargo-culting.

mettamage 7y ago

> Formulaic communication techniques come across as dishonest. IMO saying things like: use empathy are also suboptimal ways of teaching people about communication. Because those type of statements are quite vague and ambiguous and ambiguity leads to mystery. One of the cool things about our 'modern' way of thinking is the idea that we try to demistify everything and really understand how things work. I think this should be the same with regards to learning how to communicate. Ideally that is: no mystery, only reliable knowledge that helps towards the goal of a better life for everyone. And yes, that is asking for a lot and will take centuries, but I believe it's worth it.

rimliu 7y ago

It's like trying to teach someone without any sense of rhythm, pitch, and tempo to play music. Yes, they can learn to do the mechanics, but the result will not be enjoyable.