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All of the press releases state that cars are banned. In fact, taxis are still allowed (except for Uber and Lyft). As a daily bike commuter on Market street, th

• stingrae 7y ago
  The approved plan is creating a divided lane for just bikes.
  • buss 7y ago
    It'll take a decade to build the full protected lane for bikes. But banning taxis would improve safety overnight.
    • SECProto 7y ago
      As someone who does just that, it should not take anywhere near a decade. From now, two or three years would suffice for a complete streets design + rebuild. Extras included (eg separating storm+sanitary sewers, or other infrastructure recapitalization) could add a year or two. If it takes them more than 4 years, construction delays inclusive, the issue lies elsewhere than the design and construction. Perhaps things like maintaining traffic flow, etc.
      • Ar-Curunir 7y ago
        This is San Francisco; construction will always take forever
      • cbhl 7y ago
        Has CEQA been fixed yet? The Van Ness bus lane project was approved by voters in 2003 after Proposition K, but the CEQA report was finished only in 2014 because one of the eighteen environmental measures that required a full CEQA review was "level of service" for automobiles (so any project that reduced car throughput "hurts the environment" and required a review). Construction is slated to finish in 2021, a full 18 years after the original plan. For more context: https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2014/07/transit-projects-are-about-to-get-much-much-easier-in-california/374049/ https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2014/07/transit-proje... https://www.sfcta.org/projects/van-ness-improvement-project https://www.sfcta.org/projects/van-ness-improvement-project
      • onlyrealcuzzo 7y ago
        Can you explain briefly how this could possibly take 3 years? I mean, I don't know anything about street design, but it seems so straightforward adding a protected bike lane. They aren't widening the streets, right? How could it take 3 years?
        • thaumasiotes 7y ago
          > They aren't widening the streets, right? How could it take 3 years? There's no upper limit to how long you can take to do something. Lower limits, sure, but no upper ones.
        • SECProto 7y ago
          So if you're just adding some painted bike lanes, or maybe some curb-separated bike lanes at street level, it shouldn't take anywhere near that long. The situation I'm picturing where it could take a few years is if the bike lanes are raised up to the same level as the sidewalk. Which can take a long time because it means moving existing curbs, which means moving catchbasins (curbs direct water flow) and often light posts (should be near edge of road for accessibility purposes - maintaining clear walking path, having push buttons and audible signals at edge of street). Doing either or both of these things means stuff is getting moved around underground, and underground is a very busy place (sewer, water, natural gas, buried electrical, signal infrastructure, old foundations, ... And all these are at different depths, with different separation requirements, severally limiting what can go where). And add in a busy location like Market Street, and maintaining access all the time, and probably limiting working hours to minimize impact on residents/businesses. The time would add up fast.
      • buss 7y ago
        I agree that it _shouldn't_ take that long. This project was first started in 2011. Construction won't start until some time in 2020 (optimistically). From https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/sf-transit-board-approves-car-free-market-street/ https://www.sfexaminer.com/news/sf-transit-board-approves-ca...: > Better Market Street will be implemented in three phases: Market from Fifth to Eighth streets is phase 1, Market from Fifth to Second streets is phase 2, and Market from Van Ness to Octavia Boulevard will comprise phase 3. > The second phase will also include the construction of a loop in the Financial District for the F-Market & Wharves historic streetcar... > Phase 1 is scheduled to stretch at least until 2022, according to the project’s website. The construction of the streetcar loop is expected in 2023, and future phases of the project are dependent on identifying funding So 1/3 of this project is projected to be finished by 2022. And the other two portions of market street don't even have funding or a timeline yet. We will be lucky if it's finished by 2026 (no delays, no recession puts funding in jeopardy, etc). By the time everything is done, it may be _20_ _years_ to build protected lanes. In the meantime, we have sharrows and intermix with taxis.
    • iknowstuff 7y ago
      Did you not see how quickly it happened on Valencia? I mean as a temporary, instant measure they could mostly add paint and more of those plastic separators: https://laecovillage.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/market-st-1699.jpg https://laecovillage.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/market-st-1...
• state_less 7y ago
  That is odd. Couldn’t people hail a cab at an intersection instead? Just walk half a block or less. On a related note, I’ve become more sensitive to the exhaust and engine noise from ICE cars when riding my bike. Nothing like directly breathing in the pollution to sour the trip and dash hope for getting rid of fossil fuels. Glad to hear about the upgrade anyhow.
  • lacker 7y ago
    I think San Francisco is still bitter at Uber and Lyft for succeeding without permission, and has given their competitors a random handout as a poke in the eye. That’s the only way this “no cars on Market except taxis” rule makes any sense.
    • Alupis 7y ago
      > I think San Francisco is still bitter at Uber and Lyft for succeeding without permission Have they succeed though? Last I saw, neither was profitable, and both were hemorrhaging hundreds of millions (and in Uber's case, billions) of dollars every quarter.
    • sagarm 7y ago
      Taxis have long benefited from special treatment, including the ability to use bus lanes. That predates Uber and Lyft AFAIK.
    • dtech 7y ago
      Other taxis operate on a government license, so this isn't really bitterness. In Utrecht, Netherlands only busses and taxis are allowed in some parts of the city center, and this predates Uber/Lyft existing (let alone expanding to the Netherlands). It's pretty standard municipal policy.
  • bdamm 7y ago
    Certainly will be happy to not get a shot of exhaust in the face every time I get groceries.
  • hisnameismanuel 7y ago
• biswaroop 7y ago
  Taxis (including Uber+Lyft) are such incredibly bad drivers. They rarely signal turns, often fail to stop at signs, and make sudden unannounced stops inside bike lanes.
  • bradlys 7y ago
    It's really no different with most drivers... You just notice the taxis more because they are all one group that stand out. I'm pretty critical of taxi drivers but they really aren't any worse than most drivers besides the random stopping without signalling at all. Which, no surprise, non-taxis do a lot too if you take enough notice. Taxis just do it more cause they stop more.
    • benj111 7y ago
      "because they are all one group that stand out" Like BMW drivers?
    • close04 7y ago
      > It's really no different with most drivers... It is because they drive all day and do this for a living so "cutting corners" (literally or figuratively) will save them... something. A private driver may not find any value in doing this regularly since they may drive 30-60 minutes per day. You are more likely to cut corners in your day job because you know it very well and you feel comfortable doing this, even if it's not safe.
  • danmaz74 7y ago
    Not signalling turns is something that I really don't understand. It requires minimal effort, doesn't slow you down in any way, and significantly increases safety. It's something that should be enforced much more.
    • kd5bjo 7y ago
      There’s a significant fraction of drivers that interpret a turn signal as a sign that it’s ok to pass unsafely because the signalling driver is safety-conscious and will act to avoid a colission,
• radley 7y ago
  So if I sign up for Lyft as a driver, I can drive on Market Street?
  • jonny_eh 7y ago
    No, since Lyft isn't a taxi service, according the city.
• odiroot 7y ago
  That's the same problem for me in Berlin. Taxi drivers cause the most dangerous situations on our streets. Second in line are delivery and post vehicles regularly blocking the cycle lanes.
  • chrischen 7y ago
    I get the taxi problem but what is the solution do delivery and postal vehicles?
    • Symbiote 7y ago
      On most pedestrian streets in Europe, delivery vehicles are allowed at particular times. That's often very early in the morning, but varies according to the street. (One with lots of bars and nightclubs might allow deliveries during the day.) For example, Copenhagen's main pedestrian streets are restricted to people on foot at all times, except residents at any time, and delivery vehicles between 04:00 and 11:00.
    • danmaz74 7y ago
      Reserve for them parking lots which don't block bike lanes. Enforce them not parking on bike lanes. When parked there, they are a safety security threat.
      • chrischen 7y ago
        Then you'd have to create parking spots and the delivery vehicles would have to be in those spots at specific times of the day? Sounds great for bikes but impractical for the delivery vehicles.
        • Steltek 7y ago
          I like how enforcing the law is portrayed as a nice-to-have here and offering to build specialty parking (in a city no less) is a hardship for the benefactors.
• randomsearch 7y ago
  Dangerous driving and pedestrianisation are separate issues.
• adrianN 7y ago
  Safety for cyclists and pedestrians could be significantly improved by lowering the speed limit to 20mph or so and enforcing it.
• sails 7y ago
  Why are taxis given special treatment in cities? As a cyclist & public transport user it really frustrates me. In London they serve a tiny minority and cause the bulk of the congestion relative to the population they serve. What would the outcome be of a total taxi ban in a major city? I imagine strikes, outcries etc, but no major disruption to the net ability for people to get around.
  • michaelt 7y ago
    In theory, in cities without good metro systems, taxis are the train-station-to-business-district-or-hotel link needed for business visitors and tourists to travel by train rather than driving directly. Whether the same logic applies in London (which has a world-class metro system) is debatable, of course.
  • dsfyu404ed 7y ago
    >Why are taxis given special treatment in cities? Because they are point to point transportation for the elderly and disabled.
    • sails 7y ago
      Very interesting point, it seems that black cabs are specifically required to cater for the disabled [0]. I wonder what the utilisation of taxis by elderly and disabled looks like as a percentage of the total rides. I think finding some mechanism that reduces congestion while catering for this would be attainable. [0] https://www.gov.uk/transport-disabled/taxis-and-minicabs https://www.gov.uk/transport-disabled/taxis-and-minicabs
  • viraptor 7y ago
    What do you mean by tiny minority? I feel like I'd have a problem finding an employed person in London who never used a standard black cab.
    • Brakenshire 7y ago
      A very small percentage earn enough to be able to use them regularly. One five minute trip costs more than a TfL day pass.
• nullc 7y ago
  My experience with with most professional drivers is that they're very calm and cerebral in their driving-- deftly anticipating and avoiding accidents, finding other driver's idiocy amusing if they take any special note of it at all. They patently wait rather than taking seconds-shaving risky maneuvers because they've seen it all and know what can go wrong. They drive predictably, use their signals, etc. So why is it that almost all my experience in taxis is that the driver seems to be a crazed maniac with a presumably diagnoseable rage disorder? They drive like their car has a bomb strapped to it that will go off if they ever yield at any point, unless they signal a temporary disarm code (4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42) by pulse width modulating their horn immediately after each and every yield event. Any use of their turn signals, however, will block the transmission of the disarm sequence, so they must be used sparingly if at all. Fortunately, their cars are seemingly powered by near misses with pedestrians combined with a form of fusion, so they have little reason to yield in the first place. This is both my experience as a passenger in these drivers vehicles as well as from sharing the road with them. It is just that my experience with taxies is mostly in dense city areas and my experience with other professional drivers is in other places with fewer drugs in the water? Is there something about driving a large truck that magically creates more consciousnesses? Is the idea that your life flashing before your eyes repeatedly will convince you of the relative worthlessness of money and cause to to leave a larger tip?
  • dual_basis 7y ago
    I always thought that this was because taxi drivers wanted to appear, to their passenger, that they were trying to get them there as fast as possible.
  • CaoCao 7y ago
    I imagine taxi drivers are much more diverse than the professional drivers you have experience with.
    • MagnumOpus 7y ago
      That’s not it. Here in London taxi drivers are stereotypically white, male and over-50, while bus drivers come in a wide variety of race, sex and age groups. Nonetheless almost all cabbies are a menace to pedestrians, cyclists and each other, while most bus drivers seem to be blessed with saintly patience as well as admirable professional driving skills.
• jiveturkey 7y ago
  > taxis are still allowed (except for Uber and Lyft) You don't need the exception. Uber and Lyft are not taxis.