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My single anecdote isnt single at all. We are talking about several schools using same method with kids in the top 3% on average. Show me the research and we c

My single anecdote isnt single at all. We are talking about several schools using same method with kids in the top 3% on average. Show me the research and we can debate it, until then the primary problem in the us is that parent put their kids to bed too late.

cosmotron 7y ago
Here is NPR's article on it: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/12/12/676118782/sleepless-no-more-in-seattle-later-school-start-time-pays-off-for-teens https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/12/12/6761187... Here is the journal article referenced: https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/12/eaau6200 https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/12/eaau6200 Here is the CDC's summary referencing further studies: https://www.cdc.gov/features/school-start-times/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/features/school-start-times/index.html
- ThomPete 7y ago
  Thanks, I read it: 1) The study doesn't conclude what the parent was claiming and what you seem to think it's claiming. 2) It's only for high school students and its sample is pretty small. 3) It actually supports my point of enough sleep more than anything else which seems to be completely ignored of course. 4) Here is my evidence https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/more-on-the-phenomenal-eye-popping-success-of-success-academy-charter-schools-in-nyc/ https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/more-on-the-phenomenal-eye-po... my sons are Success Academy. What do you suggest I conclude from that? 5) Just saying something is science isn't enough and just saying it's science because someone did some studies isn't enough either. I read through the paper and it wasn't even close to being anything but a very small sample especially when you factor in that two different schools yielded two different results. So perhaps rather than just scream science, it would help if people took a deep breath and looked into what they hold in front of them as science cause that wasn't it. 6) I was responding to a claim about not being fully awake in the morning with a simple observation that if you go to bed early you are not going to be tired in the morning. That was then challenged with a completely new challenge which was that kids perform better when they are in school later to which I know for a fact that's not true and from the article you are referencing that's not what's being said either.
  - eitally 7y ago
    I think arguing isn't worth the effort. The fact is, it's easier for the state to set start times later than it is for millions of parents to get their kids to bed on time (for all sorts of reasons).
    - ThomPete 7y ago
      Well but that's a very different discussion and not the one I was originally engaging in. But claims of anecdotal evidence are simply factually wrong.
jjeaff 7y ago
How is it you think that is evidence somehow? You might as well conclude that having a unicorn as your school mascot is why kids do so well at that school. http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations There are so many confounding factors that could be causing students to do better in those schools. Here is my take away from your 'data': Imagine how much better those students would be doing if they also weren't getting up earlier than is natural or recommended.

cosmotron 7y ago

Here is NPR's article on it: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/12/12/676118782/sleepless-no-more-in-seattle-later-school-start-time-pays-off-for-teens https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/12/12/6761187... Here is the journal article referenced: https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/12/eaau6200 https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/4/12/eaau6200 Here is the CDC's summary referencing further studies: https://www.cdc.gov/features/school-start-times/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/features/school-start-times/index.html

ThomPete 7y ago
Thanks, I read it: 1) The study doesn't conclude what the parent was claiming and what you seem to think it's claiming. 2) It's only for high school students and its sample is pretty small. 3) It actually supports my point of enough sleep more than anything else which seems to be completely ignored of course. 4) Here is my evidence https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/more-on-the-phenomenal-eye-popping-success-of-success-academy-charter-schools-in-nyc/ https://www.aei.org/carpe-diem/more-on-the-phenomenal-eye-po... my sons are Success Academy. What do you suggest I conclude from that? 5) Just saying something is science isn't enough and just saying it's science because someone did some studies isn't enough either. I read through the paper and it wasn't even close to being anything but a very small sample especially when you factor in that two different schools yielded two different results. So perhaps rather than just scream science, it would help if people took a deep breath and looked into what they hold in front of them as science cause that wasn't it. 6) I was responding to a claim about not being fully awake in the morning with a simple observation that if you go to bed early you are not going to be tired in the morning. That was then challenged with a completely new challenge which was that kids perform better when they are in school later to which I know for a fact that's not true and from the article you are referencing that's not what's being said either.
- eitally 7y ago
  I think arguing isn't worth the effort. The fact is, it's easier for the state to set start times later than it is for millions of parents to get their kids to bed on time (for all sorts of reasons).
  - ThomPete 7y ago
    Well but that's a very different discussion and not the one I was originally engaging in. But claims of anecdotal evidence are simply factually wrong.

jjeaff 7y ago

How is it you think that is evidence somehow? You might as well conclude that having a unicorn as your school mascot is why kids do so well at that school. http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations There are so many confounding factors that could be causing students to do better in those schools. Here is my take away from your 'data': Imagine how much better those students would be doing if they also weren't getting up earlier than is natural or recommended.