5 ms·

When you actually read the book, you find it has a very awkward way of speaking which can induce eyerolls.

by novok 7y ago

megous 7y ago
Though if you just follow the reasons behind the four points in the article and implement them your way, it would be fine too, no? It's like with lots of these communication systems. (P.E.T. is similar, but more oriented at communicatuion with children) The authors have some specific examples of situations, and how they'd communicate, but it's all driven by some core principles and goals, and as long as you're also driven by and mind those all the time, you'll be fine using your own language, or the language of your peer.
- bhy 7y ago
  Could you provide a link towards "P.E.T."? The term is not googleble..
  - jhncls 7y ago
    Parent Effectiveness Training: https://www.gordontraining.com/parent-programs/parent-effectiveness-training-p-e-t/ https://www.gordontraining.com/parent-programs/parent-effect... https://www.parentskills.com.au/blog/pet-page-summary-skills-and-principles-parent-effectiveness-training-pet https://www.parentskills.com.au/blog/pet-page-summary-skills...
    - bhy 7y ago
      Thank you!
atoav 7y ago
I read it ages ago in it’s German translation and while I remember there was a bit of awkwardness, I always understood it as an exaggeration for the sake of the example. My main takeaway was not the kind of language described in the book, but the thoughts behind it: the effects of your phrasing on how your message is received etc. I think I mostly use the ideas from the book without thinking at this point — and in order for that to work you most likely will have to find your own way.
Tomte 7y ago
It drove me up the wall and I didn't finish it. All this "if you answered c, e and f, we are not of the same opinion" feels passive-aggressive to me. The whole thing feels manipulative to me. It makes me think that people try an insincere way of talking to me, in order to manipulate my feelings and reaction. I've had huge discussions with friends who try to live the book, and neither of us could make the other see their point. One of their examples was "My boyfriend likes to go DJing, but sometimes I'd love for him to stay home and cuddle with me. So I clearly tell him that him leaving makes me feel alone and that I would like some warmth. But I don't tell him what to do, to stay at home, for example. I only talk about my own perception and feelings." – "Yes, that's great, but in communication there is the level of pragmatics above pure logical semantics. And you telling your boyfriend that him leaving makes you feel very alone is just another way of saying 'please don't go'".
- din-9 7y ago
  The linked page has four steps, the last of which is "make requests".
  - avar 7y ago
    That's what makes it passive-aggressive, it can be perceived as three steps of manipulation to get to a fourth step. If your ultimate intent is to make a request, then make a request.
    - TeMPOraL 7y ago
      Ending at third step and leaving request unstated sounds highly manipulative to me, because the other party now has to figure out what you really want. Going straight to the request makes the tone do all the work - whether the exact request is even registered by the other party, or whether they feel forced to abandon their plans, all depends on how you voice your words. Perhaps people are different, but I'm of the type that I absolutely want to hear both what you want and reasoning why you want it, and I tend to pick up and overanalyze the tone if you leave either part unstated.

When you actually read the book, you find it has a very awkward way of speaking which can induce eyerolls.

by novok 7y ago

When you actually read the book, you find it has a very awkward way of speaking which can induce eyerolls.

Though if you just follow the reasons behind the four points in the article and implement them your way, it would be fine too, no? It's like with lots of these communication systems. (P.E.T. is similar, but more oriented at communicatuion with children) The authors have some specific examples of situations, and how they'd communicate, but it's all driven by some core principles and goals, and as long as you're also driven by and mind those all the time, you'll be fine using your own language, or the language of your peer.

bhy 7y ago
Could you provide a link towards "P.E.T."? The term is not googleble..
- jhncls 7y ago
  Parent Effectiveness Training: https://www.gordontraining.com/parent-programs/parent-effectiveness-training-p-e-t/ https://www.gordontraining.com/parent-programs/parent-effect... https://www.parentskills.com.au/blog/pet-page-summary-skills-and-principles-parent-effectiveness-training-pet https://www.parentskills.com.au/blog/pet-page-summary-skills...
  - bhy 7y ago
    Thank you!

atoav 7y ago

I read it ages ago in it’s German translation and while I remember there was a bit of awkwardness, I always understood it as an exaggeration for the sake of the example. My main takeaway was not the kind of language described in the book, but the thoughts behind it: the effects of your phrasing on how your message is received etc. I think I mostly use the ideas from the book without thinking at this point — and in order for that to work you most likely will have to find your own way.

Tomte 7y ago

It drove me up the wall and I didn't finish it. All this "if you answered c, e and f, we are not of the same opinion" feels passive-aggressive to me. The whole thing feels manipulative to me. It makes me think that people try an insincere way of talking to me, in order to manipulate my feelings and reaction. I've had huge discussions with friends who try to live the book, and neither of us could make the other see their point. One of their examples was "My boyfriend likes to go DJing, but sometimes I'd love for him to stay home and cuddle with me. So I clearly tell him that him leaving makes me feel alone and that I would like some warmth. But I don't tell him what to do, to stay at home, for example. I only talk about my own perception and feelings." – "Yes, that's great, but in communication there is the level of pragmatics above pure logical semantics. And you telling your boyfriend that him leaving makes you feel very alone is just another way of saying 'please don't go'".

din-9 7y ago
The linked page has four steps, the last of which is "make requests".
- avar 7y ago
  That's what makes it passive-aggressive, it can be perceived as three steps of manipulation to get to a fourth step. If your ultimate intent is to make a request, then make a request.
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    Ending at third step and leaving request unstated sounds highly manipulative to me, because the other party now has to figure out what you really want. Going straight to the request makes the tone do all the work - whether the exact request is even registered by the other party, or whether they feel forced to abandon their plans, all depends on how you voice your words. Perhaps people are different, but I'm of the type that I absolutely want to hear both what you want and reasoning why you want it, and I tend to pick up and overanalyze the tone if you leave either part unstated.