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>It's only civil for a first infraction No. As a preliminary matter there is no such thing as an immigration infraction. >Disobeying any immigration order...

>It's only civil for a first infraction No. As a preliminary matter there is no such thing as an immigration infraction. >Disobeying any immigration order... There is nothing special about an "immigration order" its a court order, the same as any other court order and has nothing to do with ones immigration status. >or being deported and then returning is civil and criminal. This 2nd part just goes to my point about mental divides, no where did you mention after deportation the vast majority of deportees have a temporary bar to return and thereafter they may return legally...again this goes to your attempted point about "first infractions." People get deported multiple time, it doesn't become a criminal case after the first deportation.

beerandt 7y ago
Illegal entry (8 usc 1325) This is/was generally waived as a matter of policy for a first offence. The status of being/remaining in the country is a civil matter, and not necessarily criminal. But crossing the border illegally is criminal. >court order It's an immigration "court" order, which is administrative/executive (under the DOJ), and which is not an article III court. So immigration order might not be 100% accurate, but it's no more wrong than calling it a court order.
- throwaway_law 7y ago
  >Illegal entry (8 usc 1325) This is/was generally waived as a matter of policy for a first offence. That isn't an Immigration Law, that is a criminal law. An Immigration Court wouldn't have jurisdiction over those cases. Whether you are a citizen or non citizen if you illegally enter the country thats a crime, and in either case you would go before a criminal court not an immigration court. Again immigration status is not a crime. >So immigration order might not be 100% accurate, but it's no more wrong than calling it a court order. Federal Immigration Judges would disagree, Immigration Court is a...Court, and Immigration Judge's issue Court Orders, subject to the same penalties as violating any other court order.
  - beerandt 7y ago
    It's a criminal law that has direct bearing on a person's ability to immigrate. Immigration status directly affects the penalties of 8 usc 1325 & 1326. ICE/CBP is going to enforce both. >Federal Immigration Judges would disagree They can disagree all they want, but only do it when it's convenient. They're arguing right now they don't even have decision making making capabilities, and can only do what's directed by the executive branch (for the sake of keeping their union). The DOJ can single handily over-rule any order signed by an immigration judge. They're a completely different animal than Article III courts. And so are the orders that they generate. Can they be enforced by federal officers? Yes, but that's my point, the whole immigration system is complicated and is comprised of many different aspects of government and law. But you can't split hairs on the intricacies between civil and criminal law (when for immigration, they're highly interwoven) and at the same time argue that a subsidiary of the executive branch should be treated as if it's part of the judiciary branch. >Again immigration status is not a crime The article is about crossing the border. By foreigners without a visa. Illegally.
    - throwaway_law 7y ago
      >But you can't split hairs on the intricacies between civil and criminal law (when for immigration, they're highly interwoven) Its not splitting hairs, its how the law and courts work. There is a difference between civil and criminal laws and courts. Point to a single Immigration Court case where the Court has sentenced someone to jail/prison for a criminal act. You can't because Immigration Courts don't have jurisdiction over criminal cases. >The article is about crossing the border. By foreigners without a visa. Illegally. No criminal charge was brought against these folks. They are NOT in a federal prison awaiting a federal criminal case. They are in an Immigration Detention Facility waiting to appear before a civil Immigration Judge. Could criminal charges be filed? sure, but then the Immigration Court would lose jurisdiction, they would go to a Federal Prison and appear before a Federal Criminal Court for the criminal case. Even if they were sentenced for the crime of illegal boarder crossing and sentenced to prison, they would serve their term in a federal prison not in a immigration detention facility, and likely ICE would be waiting outside the prison the day they get released and ICE would re-detain them, put them back in a Federal Immigration Detention Center pending civil removal (deportation proceedings) in Immigration Court.

beerandt 7y ago

Illegal entry (8 usc 1325) This is/was generally waived as a matter of policy for a first offence. The status of being/remaining in the country is a civil matter, and not necessarily criminal. But crossing the border illegally is criminal. >court order It's an immigration "court" order, which is administrative/executive (under the DOJ), and which is not an article III court. So immigration order might not be 100% accurate, but it's no more wrong than calling it a court order.

throwaway_law 7y ago
>Illegal entry (8 usc 1325) This is/was generally waived as a matter of policy for a first offence. That isn't an Immigration Law, that is a criminal law. An Immigration Court wouldn't have jurisdiction over those cases. Whether you are a citizen or non citizen if you illegally enter the country thats a crime, and in either case you would go before a criminal court not an immigration court. Again immigration status is not a crime. >So immigration order might not be 100% accurate, but it's no more wrong than calling it a court order. Federal Immigration Judges would disagree, Immigration Court is a...Court, and Immigration Judge's issue Court Orders, subject to the same penalties as violating any other court order.
- beerandt 7y ago
  It's a criminal law that has direct bearing on a person's ability to immigrate. Immigration status directly affects the penalties of 8 usc 1325 & 1326. ICE/CBP is going to enforce both. >Federal Immigration Judges would disagree They can disagree all they want, but only do it when it's convenient. They're arguing right now they don't even have decision making making capabilities, and can only do what's directed by the executive branch (for the sake of keeping their union). The DOJ can single handily over-rule any order signed by an immigration judge. They're a completely different animal than Article III courts. And so are the orders that they generate. Can they be enforced by federal officers? Yes, but that's my point, the whole immigration system is complicated and is comprised of many different aspects of government and law. But you can't split hairs on the intricacies between civil and criminal law (when for immigration, they're highly interwoven) and at the same time argue that a subsidiary of the executive branch should be treated as if it's part of the judiciary branch. >Again immigration status is not a crime The article is about crossing the border. By foreigners without a visa. Illegally.
  - throwaway_law 7y ago
    >But you can't split hairs on the intricacies between civil and criminal law (when for immigration, they're highly interwoven) Its not splitting hairs, its how the law and courts work. There is a difference between civil and criminal laws and courts. Point to a single Immigration Court case where the Court has sentenced someone to jail/prison for a criminal act. You can't because Immigration Courts don't have jurisdiction over criminal cases. >The article is about crossing the border. By foreigners without a visa. Illegally. No criminal charge was brought against these folks. They are NOT in a federal prison awaiting a federal criminal case. They are in an Immigration Detention Facility waiting to appear before a civil Immigration Judge. Could criminal charges be filed? sure, but then the Immigration Court would lose jurisdiction, they would go to a Federal Prison and appear before a Federal Criminal Court for the criminal case. Even if they were sentenced for the crime of illegal boarder crossing and sentenced to prison, they would serve their term in a federal prison not in a immigration detention facility, and likely ICE would be waiting outside the prison the day they get released and ICE would re-detain them, put them back in a Federal Immigration Detention Center pending civil removal (deportation proceedings) in Immigration Court.