6 ms·

> This has been driven by earlier and earlier school start times What about later and later bed times?

Retric 7y ago
If both where true you would see more than 1 hour of lost sleep.
johnpowell 7y ago
When I was kid I took apart my tv to disconnect the speakers and wire up my walkman headphones. This was so I could put a blanket over my head and tv and watch some Letterman at night. My mom would notice if there was light and noise coming from my room after bedtime. Now the kids have phones. If I had a phone and internet access I would have never slept.
- jupp0r 7y ago
  Phones have parental controls. Learning how to hack those is a worthwhile skill to learn, too.
cgriswald 7y ago
Humans get tired from being up for a certain number of hours and also from waning daylight. In teens, both of these are delayed relative to adults and children. You can send a teen to bed early but their bodies aren’t trying to sleep.
Alupis 7y ago
> What about later and later bed times? This is the real factor. When I was a kid - it was in bed, lights out and go to sleep at 9pm the latest during school nights - strictly enforced by my parents. Now I regularly see small children (< 10 years old) out at the store past 10pm or 11pm on school nights.
- driverdan 7y ago
  I highly doubt you went to bed at 9pm when you were in high school.
  - Alupis 7y ago
    Junior and Senior year, I had a lot more freedom - yes, but not in the 5th grade. I also had my own car Junior/Senior year and drove myself to school... and if I was late I had to deal with the consequences both at school and at home. I also had a "Zero Period" starting at 7am - so ya, I still went to bed pretty early, even when it was my decision.
- arcticbull 7y ago
  This is also anecdotal. While it will of course vary from person to person, it's been conclusively shown teenagers circadian rhythms are shifted later than adults. Sleeping later and waking up later in teenagers is biological and it doesn't do anyone good to fight it.
  - Alupis 7y ago
    While what you say is true, does pushing the start time of class back 30 minutes or 1 hour make any difference? I'm skeptical. When I was a teen, on weekends with no where to be, I'd regularly sleep until noon, 1pm, sometimes 2pm or later. Should we push school back until, say, 4pm through 10pm-12am? Doubtful that's good either. On some level, it teaches kids that they have to be someplace at a certain time, regardless of what they might want... You know, obligations and responsibility.
    - slykat 7y ago
      > While what you say is true, does pushing the start time of class back 30 minutes or 1 hour make any difference? I'm skeptical. Did you read the article? They have done several studies to show a significance difference in academic performance with a slight shift. That's the whole reason for this change. "One three-year study (pdf, p.1) of 9,000 high-school students across three states, for example, found that academic performance, “including grades earned in core subject areas of math, English, science and social studies, plus performance on state and national achievement tests, attendance rates and reduced tardiness show significantly positive improvement with the later start times of 8:35 AM or later.”
      - Alupis 7y ago
        Like I said - why not push it to a start time of noon or later then? Was that studied too? Or are we just basing policy off a half-baked idea, here in Calunicornia? I can be skeptical this will have any real impact, despite the findings of one survey-study. The cited study was a survey students voluntarily completed... which opens the door for response bias. The study was only conducted over a single school year, and no two schools had the same modified schedule. Nor did they repeat the study for a second school year to ensure they didn't observe anomalies, nor go back to the old schedule to see if a simple schedule change - not the late start time - is what prompted the changes. Nor did they follow students through their student career, maintaining the altered schedule to see if performance results were consistent. The 9,000 students might sound impressive - but this is not actually a good long term study... far from it.
- dagenix 7y ago
  In my day I had to walk uphill to school - both ways!!
  - ahje 7y ago
    Me too -- it happens when both one's home and school are on two separate hills. School didn't start until 08:00 though, and it was definitely too early if you asked teenage me.
tylerl 7y ago
Bed times aren't mandated by a government board. School start times are. Also, later school start times have in other states led to better academic performance, better behavior, etc., independent of any control for bedtime. This decision has no downside. It's like mandating that hot dog vendors not sell disguised dog turds.
- ryanmercer 7y ago
  >Also, later school start times have in other states led to better academic performance, better behavior, etc., independent of any control for bedtime. And how much of that is because kids are staying up to watch the Walking Talking After Dead Chat Show that start at 9, 10, 11pm or because they start getting tired playing Fortnight that late instead of learning how to fall asleep naturally and thus starting school later lets them stay up later and still get sleep?

If both where true you would see more than 1 hour of lost sleep.

When I was kid I took apart my tv to disconnect the speakers and wire up my walkman headphones. This was so I could put a blanket over my head and tv and watch some Letterman at night. My mom would notice if there was light and noise coming from my room after bedtime. Now the kids have phones. If I had a phone and internet access I would have never slept.

jupp0r 7y ago
Phones have parental controls. Learning how to hack those is a worthwhile skill to learn, too.

cgriswald 7y ago

Humans get tired from being up for a certain number of hours and also from waning daylight. In teens, both of these are delayed relative to adults and children. You can send a teen to bed early but their bodies aren’t trying to sleep.

Alupis 7y ago

> What about later and later bed times? This is the real factor. When I was a kid - it was in bed, lights out and go to sleep at 9pm the latest during school nights - strictly enforced by my parents. Now I regularly see small children (< 10 years old) out at the store past 10pm or 11pm on school nights.

driverdan 7y ago
I highly doubt you went to bed at 9pm when you were in high school.
- Alupis 7y ago
  Junior and Senior year, I had a lot more freedom - yes, but not in the 5th grade. I also had my own car Junior/Senior year and drove myself to school... and if I was late I had to deal with the consequences both at school and at home. I also had a "Zero Period" starting at 7am - so ya, I still went to bed pretty early, even when it was my decision.
arcticbull 7y ago
This is also anecdotal. While it will of course vary from person to person, it's been conclusively shown teenagers circadian rhythms are shifted later than adults. Sleeping later and waking up later in teenagers is biological and it doesn't do anyone good to fight it.
- Alupis 7y ago
  While what you say is true, does pushing the start time of class back 30 minutes or 1 hour make any difference? I'm skeptical. When I was a teen, on weekends with no where to be, I'd regularly sleep until noon, 1pm, sometimes 2pm or later. Should we push school back until, say, 4pm through 10pm-12am? Doubtful that's good either. On some level, it teaches kids that they have to be someplace at a certain time, regardless of what they might want... You know, obligations and responsibility.
  - slykat 7y ago
    > While what you say is true, does pushing the start time of class back 30 minutes or 1 hour make any difference? I'm skeptical. Did you read the article? They have done several studies to show a significance difference in academic performance with a slight shift. That's the whole reason for this change. "One three-year study (pdf, p.1) of 9,000 high-school students across three states, for example, found that academic performance, “including grades earned in core subject areas of math, English, science and social studies, plus performance on state and national achievement tests, attendance rates and reduced tardiness show significantly positive improvement with the later start times of 8:35 AM or later.”
    - Alupis 7y ago
      Like I said - why not push it to a start time of noon or later then? Was that studied too? Or are we just basing policy off a half-baked idea, here in Calunicornia? I can be skeptical this will have any real impact, despite the findings of one survey-study. The cited study was a survey students voluntarily completed... which opens the door for response bias. The study was only conducted over a single school year, and no two schools had the same modified schedule. Nor did they repeat the study for a second school year to ensure they didn't observe anomalies, nor go back to the old schedule to see if a simple schedule change - not the late start time - is what prompted the changes. Nor did they follow students through their student career, maintaining the altered schedule to see if performance results were consistent. The 9,000 students might sound impressive - but this is not actually a good long term study... far from it.
dagenix 7y ago
In my day I had to walk uphill to school - both ways!!
- ahje 7y ago
  Me too -- it happens when both one's home and school are on two separate hills. School didn't start until 08:00 though, and it was definitely too early if you asked teenage me.

tylerl 7y ago

Bed times aren't mandated by a government board. School start times are. Also, later school start times have in other states led to better academic performance, better behavior, etc., independent of any control for bedtime. This decision has no downside. It's like mandating that hot dog vendors not sell disguised dog turds.

ryanmercer 7y ago
>Also, later school start times have in other states led to better academic performance, better behavior, etc., independent of any control for bedtime. And how much of that is because kids are staying up to watch the Walking Talking After Dead Chat Show that start at 9, 10, 11pm or because they start getting tired playing Fortnight that late instead of learning how to fall asleep naturally and thus starting school later lets them stay up later and still get sleep?