4 ms·

Is it actually legal? In France, a bag in a public place is deemed to be a bomb and the military has to come, secure the area and destroy it. Happens on a routi

Is it actually legal? In France, a bag in a public place is deemed to be a bomb and the military has to come, secure the area and destroy it. Happens on a routine basis, not even worth the newspapers. You don’t have such laws in Washington DC?

SI_Rob 7y ago
Not sure about such laws, though there's lots of "if you see something, say something" PSA posters around. It's possible the person who recovered it saw it fall, but they didn't explain their actions or even identify themselves.
Bokanovsky 7y ago
In the UK it's generally the same too. People are always cautious and told to look out for unattended baggage for that reason.
- ldjb 7y ago
  It's certainly not illegal to inspect unattended items in the UK. An assessment is typically made of whether or not it should be deemed a threat. If the item is not hidden, not obviously suspicious, and is typical of the environment in which it was found, then it's unlikely to be a threat and can be inspected further. Unattended bags are found all the time. There's no need for the military to be called in for all (or even most) of them. And even then, that's mostly the responsibility of the police than the armed forces.
ryanlol 7y ago
Wow, that’s some insane security theater. How often do the bags turn out to be bombs? never?
- retromario 7y ago
  France experienced a high amount of bomb attacks in the 70s and 80s, eventually tapering off in the 90s [1]. The aggressive reaction to unattended bags stems from these events. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_France#20th_century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in...
djrogers 7y ago
About the only place that would happen in the US (a bag being destroyed for being forgotten) is an airport. There may be a handful of other places with ‘unattended baggage’ policies, but there is definitely nothing illegal about dropping your bag.
- fl0wenol 7y ago
  Don't forget metros/subways. You see a lot of luggage pass through without inspection (unlike airports or stadiums) but the potential for a terrorist attack is real and they've been used for exactly this. So transit police in US respond very quickly to unattended packages or luggage and treat them as dangerous by default. (https://wjla.com/news/crime/suspicious-packages-in-d-c-unpackaged-54885 https://wjla.com/news/crime/suspicious-packages-in-d-c-unpac...)
mikestew 7y ago
You don’t have such laws in Washington DC? Funny you should ask. A few years back my wife and I were stuck in Reagan (an airport in D. C.) for a super-long layover. As I'm watching my first ever episode of Archer, I notice the family a row over gets up and walks down the concourse, leaving their bags. Now, I've heard a bit of their conversations as I've sat there, and I gather they're American and probably self-centered and clueless. Or maybe that's what the terrorists that just walked away from their explosives want me to think. Regardless, we're sitting at the gate and there's a gate agent right there, so I put this in the "not my job anymore" bucket. It's been a few years, but I'll bet it was at least ten minutes before the agent called security. It was long enough that I was about to get up and ask, "ya know, I'm not the super-paranoid type, but don't you think you ought to give the dog a little practice sniffing bags?" The dog and an agent or two show up, give the bags a sniff, and wait for the owners to return. I was disappointed that there wasn't at least a little ass-chewing. I mean, what U. S. resident doesn't know not to do that? And if they don't, how about driving that lesson home? But anyway, we don't get too worked up about a random bag lying around. Because in the U. S., thus far it hasn't been shown that it stands much of a chance of blowing up. My sympathy to countries that have not been so lucky.
- droithomme 7y ago
  If I'm going to take a piss or dump in the WC I'd like to think I can leave my suitcase for a few minutes without people deciding I'm a terrorist. Deciding I might be a terrorist because I went to the bathroom? That's what is absolutely batshit insane.
  - mikestew 7y ago
    Deciding I might be a terrorist because I went to the bathroom? No, because you left a container large enough to hold a fair amount of explosives, a container that has been used in other parts of the world at airports to detonate explosives, and you just walked away from it. Tell me what you believe to be the sane response. But if you just want to go take a shit, by all means, do so. And I'm with sibling comment: I don't let my bags out of my sight.
detaro 7y ago
What is illegal? To inspect a bag you find in public? To inspect a bag you see someone dropped? Would really be interested in a reference to a specific law.
brmgb 7y ago
> In France, a bag in a public place is deemed to be a bomb and the military has to come, secure the area and destroy it. That's obviously not true. If it was the case, the Paris subway would forever be stopped. What is true is that in France when someone reports an abandoned bag in a public place in the main cities, it will systematically be considered as suspect. It means that someone will first go visually inspect it. If it is deemed to present a risk, a detection dog will be brought. Then, if the detection dog smells something, it will be safely handled by the police bomb disposal unit. Thankfully - it turns a half an hour top operation into a significantly longer one - it is very rare to need to destroy a bag. Also it is absolutely not illegal to check a lost wallet (or a lost bag actually) in France.
emilfihlman 7y ago
Whattheeverliving fuck are you on?
- dang 7y ago
  If you keep breaking the site guidelines we will ban you. We've asked you many times. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
coldtea 7y ago
>In France, a bag in a public place is deemed to be a bomb and the military has to come, secure the area and destroy it. After the 2015 attacks one would guess. For a millenium at least, and well up into the early 21st century, a bag in public place in France it was just a bag -- and people could return it. I'm pretty sure that's the case now too -- it's only "deemed to be a bomb" if it looks suspicious and somebody calls the cops. I'm sure people lose/forget bags with the same frequency in France as elsewhere, and the military/cops are not involved in the majority of cases...

SI_Rob 7y ago

Not sure about such laws, though there's lots of "if you see something, say something" PSA posters around. It's possible the person who recovered it saw it fall, but they didn't explain their actions or even identify themselves.

Bokanovsky 7y ago

In the UK it's generally the same too. People are always cautious and told to look out for unattended baggage for that reason.

ldjb 7y ago
It's certainly not illegal to inspect unattended items in the UK. An assessment is typically made of whether or not it should be deemed a threat. If the item is not hidden, not obviously suspicious, and is typical of the environment in which it was found, then it's unlikely to be a threat and can be inspected further. Unattended bags are found all the time. There's no need for the military to be called in for all (or even most) of them. And even then, that's mostly the responsibility of the police than the armed forces.

ryanlol 7y ago

Wow, that’s some insane security theater. How often do the bags turn out to be bombs? never?

retromario 7y ago
France experienced a high amount of bomb attacks in the 70s and 80s, eventually tapering off in the 90s [1]. The aggressive reaction to unattended bags stems from these events. 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_France#20th_century https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in...

djrogers 7y ago

About the only place that would happen in the US (a bag being destroyed for being forgotten) is an airport. There may be a handful of other places with ‘unattended baggage’ policies, but there is definitely nothing illegal about dropping your bag.

fl0wenol 7y ago
Don't forget metros/subways. You see a lot of luggage pass through without inspection (unlike airports or stadiums) but the potential for a terrorist attack is real and they've been used for exactly this. So transit police in US respond very quickly to unattended packages or luggage and treat them as dangerous by default. (https://wjla.com/news/crime/suspicious-packages-in-d-c-unpackaged-54885 https://wjla.com/news/crime/suspicious-packages-in-d-c-unpac...)

mikestew 7y ago

You don’t have such laws in Washington DC? Funny you should ask. A few years back my wife and I were stuck in Reagan (an airport in D. C.) for a super-long layover. As I'm watching my first ever episode of Archer, I notice the family a row over gets up and walks down the concourse, leaving their bags. Now, I've heard a bit of their conversations as I've sat there, and I gather they're American and probably self-centered and clueless. Or maybe that's what the terrorists that just walked away from their explosives want me to think. Regardless, we're sitting at the gate and there's a gate agent right there, so I put this in the "not my job anymore" bucket. It's been a few years, but I'll bet it was at least ten minutes before the agent called security. It was long enough that I was about to get up and ask, "ya know, I'm not the super-paranoid type, but don't you think you ought to give the dog a little practice sniffing bags?" The dog and an agent or two show up, give the bags a sniff, and wait for the owners to return. I was disappointed that there wasn't at least a little ass-chewing. I mean, what U. S. resident doesn't know not to do that? And if they don't, how about driving that lesson home? But anyway, we don't get too worked up about a random bag lying around. Because in the U. S., thus far it hasn't been shown that it stands much of a chance of blowing up. My sympathy to countries that have not been so lucky.

droithomme 7y ago
If I'm going to take a piss or dump in the WC I'd like to think I can leave my suitcase for a few minutes without people deciding I'm a terrorist. Deciding I might be a terrorist because I went to the bathroom? That's what is absolutely batshit insane.
- mikestew 7y ago
  Deciding I might be a terrorist because I went to the bathroom? No, because you left a container large enough to hold a fair amount of explosives, a container that has been used in other parts of the world at airports to detonate explosives, and you just walked away from it. Tell me what you believe to be the sane response. But if you just want to go take a shit, by all means, do so. And I'm with sibling comment: I don't let my bags out of my sight.

detaro 7y ago

What is illegal? To inspect a bag you find in public? To inspect a bag you see someone dropped? Would really be interested in a reference to a specific law.

brmgb 7y ago

> In France, a bag in a public place is deemed to be a bomb and the military has to come, secure the area and destroy it. That's obviously not true. If it was the case, the Paris subway would forever be stopped. What is true is that in France when someone reports an abandoned bag in a public place in the main cities, it will systematically be considered as suspect. It means that someone will first go visually inspect it. If it is deemed to present a risk, a detection dog will be brought. Then, if the detection dog smells something, it will be safely handled by the police bomb disposal unit. Thankfully - it turns a half an hour top operation into a significantly longer one - it is very rare to need to destroy a bag. Also it is absolutely not illegal to check a lost wallet (or a lost bag actually) in France.

emilfihlman 7y ago

Whattheeverliving fuck are you on?

dang 7y ago
If you keep breaking the site guidelines we will ban you. We've asked you many times. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

coldtea 7y ago

>In France, a bag in a public place is deemed to be a bomb and the military has to come, secure the area and destroy it. After the 2015 attacks one would guess. For a millenium at least, and well up into the early 21st century, a bag in public place in France it was just a bag -- and people could return it. I'm pretty sure that's the case now too -- it's only "deemed to be a bomb" if it looks suspicious and somebody calls the cops. I'm sure people lose/forget bags with the same frequency in France as elsewhere, and the military/cops are not involved in the majority of cases...