4 ms·

Start learning Objective-C on a Windows machine

36 points by octopus 16y ago

flashgordon 16y ago
Mate I am a bit dissapointed (nothing personal). I was really really hoping (feel free to call me crazy. you wouldnt be the first) it would be an article on replicating your iphone sdk on a non-mac platform. I managed to get the same thing done on ubuntu with nextstep but the lack of the cocoa libraries means you are way way off developing iphone apps on hac-macs. And yes your title does not mention "iphone" in it so shame on me for hoping for it. Still id be crazy not to wish for it!
- octopus 16y ago
  Well, in a sense you are right, however before starting to code an Iphone game you should learn Objective-C and this can be done successfully on a Windows or Linux machine. My idea is to use the Windows machine for implementing all the non-graphical part of a simple game, maybe using some simple ASCII graphics. If you plan to use OpenGL for rendering your graphics on the Iphone you can go further and implement some of the graphical functionality. BTW, actually you have access to some of the Cocoa libraries, check the Headers folder, in my case this is in C:\GNUstep\GNUstep\System\Library\Headers on your Ubuntu machine you should probably search for "Cocoa.h" header file. Also the GNUstep manual claims you can create graphical application with the provided libraries. I think I will investigate this in a future post.
  - Zev 16y ago
    Well, in a sense you are right, however before starting to code an Iphone game you should learn Objective-C The language is the easy part; you can pick up Obj-C in a day, if you have any reasonable experience in any other language. The frameworks (UIKit and Foundation are the important ones) are the harder. You can pick up an old(er) version of Foundation if you use GNUStep. My idea is to use the Windows machine for implementing all the non-graphical part of a simple game, maybe using some simple ASCII graphics. If you plan to use OpenGL for rendering your graphics on the Iphone you can go further and implement some of the graphical functionality. Anything other than backend logic and you'll want a real Mac. You'll also want a real mac if you want anything fancy like Core Data to save everything. You'll still need to draw your text on screen somehow. You'll want an iOS UI framework, that isn't available for testing on Windows or Linux. Also, OpenGL and OpenGL ES are similar, but, I don't know how much code could be used as-is between the two platforms. My hunch is that there are parts that that can't be completely cross-platform. Also the GNUstep manual claims you can create graphical application with the provided libraries. Maybe for Mac OS X, with AppKit. There's no open version of UIKit for iOS.
    - hsmyers 16y ago
      I had little trouble with a first AppKit app after finding http://www.gnustep.it/nicola/Tutorials/WritingMakefiles/node6.html http://www.gnustep.it/nicola/Tutorials/WritingMakefiles/node... There are links to additional articles/tutorials suggesting more complexity is available...
      - Zev 16y ago
        My point about AppKit is that AppKit doesn't exist on the iPhone or iPad. You need to use UIKit instead.
        octopus 16y ago
        You right. The idea is that there are some people (me included) that are forced to use a Windows machine a few hours a day. I have an iMac at home on which I test/compile my code from time to time. From my experience you can safely implement on Windows about 90% of an application, because I restrain myself to use only the functions that are compatible with both OpenGL ES and OpenGL I'm able to implement parts of the graphical components of my app too. This is an incremental process and I always check,in the evening, on my iMac. Take a game of Tic Tac Toe for example, you can implement the computer movements (game AI) on GNUstep. You can also use Blender to create your graphical objects ... In the end only about 10% of the code actually needs a real Mac.
- aerique 16y ago
  If you have an iPhone but no machine running OS X you can develop directly on the phone by jailbreaking it and installing the toolchain from Cydia.
younata 16y ago
GNUstep is actually not that bad. The most annoying thing is writing the makefiles. They have good documentation if you are building a library, command line tool, or application. If you aren't, then the documentation is basically "this exists. Go read the source." I've ported a few foundation tools to bsd. I'm weird in that objective-c is my language of choice.
- pavlov 16y ago
  I like Cocotron (another open source Cocoa implementation) because it integrates into Xcode. No separate makefiles to maintain for my Windows or Linux builds, just another target in the same project as the original Mac version. (I realize that cross-compiling to Windows from the Mac is not what the original post is about -- just thought someone might be interested in that option as well.)
  - younata 16y ago
    I like the idea of Cocotron. However, I just could not get it to work on compiling for my bsd system. C'est la vie.
- torpor 16y ago
  I've lately become very addicted to Objective-C, after a few months of hacking apps for iOS .. and I'm finding myself wishing I could use it at my day job (OS developer for safety-critical systems) .. its just such a sweet language, very friendly and easy to use.
- riffraff 16y ago
  what were you building that is not a (graphical I suppose) application nor a command line tool nor a library? (honest question)
  - younata 16y ago
    I was in the process of porting frothkit [1], a web framework, to run on gnustep. I gave up on that, sadly. [1] http://frothkit.org/ http://frothkit.org/
oemera 16y ago
Yeah with GNUStep you can develop Objective-C on a Windows machine. However I wouldn't recommend that. Not because I want you to buy a Mac. No, it's because I did exactly the same thing and after a few "Hello Worlds" I tried to develop an calculator in Objective-C and it worked very well unless I wanted to compile it on a Mac. My whole code, which wasn't much for sure, was not working and errors came all over the place. I cant remember why but I was little nervous to have learned the wrong syntax. If you don't have a Mac at home try to virtualize it and if you are serious about iPhone development then go and buy a Mac. Again not because I'm using a Mac no it is because it will make your live way easier and let's you focus on development rather than messing around with the environment.
- d_r 16y ago
  That, and you don't need a top-of-the-line $2000+ Mac Pro to develop (I think those are for video/graphics guys, anyway.) For example, my main dev box is a Mac Mini (and it flies even with 2 monitors, Xcode, Eclipse, and a bunch of other things open at the same time.) One could even grab a refurb to make it more affordable.
malkia 16y ago
Or better find WebObjects 4.5.2 (latest 4.5) - it's OpenStep/NeXT/Cocoa precursor for Windows. It has gcc, objective-c, debugger, sampler, etc. Or Cocotron... wait - you can't compile with it on Windows... But if you want to use through Common Lisp, then ClozureCL started using it.
- rbanffy 16y ago
  I think there was an OpenStep for Windows with the complete NeXT development toolset - editors and GUI builder. I remember seeing it. It could, of course, be part of WebObjects.

36 points by octopus 16y ago

Mate I am a bit dissapointed (nothing personal). I was really really hoping (feel free to call me crazy. you wouldnt be the first) it would be an article on replicating your iphone sdk on a non-mac platform. I managed to get the same thing done on ubuntu with nextstep but the lack of the cocoa libraries means you are way way off developing iphone apps on hac-macs. And yes your title does not mention "iphone" in it so shame on me for hoping for it. Still id be crazy not to wish for it!

octopus 16y ago
Well, in a sense you are right, however before starting to code an Iphone game you should learn Objective-C and this can be done successfully on a Windows or Linux machine. My idea is to use the Windows machine for implementing all the non-graphical part of a simple game, maybe using some simple ASCII graphics. If you plan to use OpenGL for rendering your graphics on the Iphone you can go further and implement some of the graphical functionality. BTW, actually you have access to some of the Cocoa libraries, check the Headers folder, in my case this is in C:\GNUstep\GNUstep\System\Library\Headers on your Ubuntu machine you should probably search for "Cocoa.h" header file. Also the GNUstep manual claims you can create graphical application with the provided libraries. I think I will investigate this in a future post.
- Zev 16y ago
  Well, in a sense you are right, however before starting to code an Iphone game you should learn Objective-C The language is the easy part; you can pick up Obj-C in a day, if you have any reasonable experience in any other language. The frameworks (UIKit and Foundation are the important ones) are the harder. You can pick up an old(er) version of Foundation if you use GNUStep. My idea is to use the Windows machine for implementing all the non-graphical part of a simple game, maybe using some simple ASCII graphics. If you plan to use OpenGL for rendering your graphics on the Iphone you can go further and implement some of the graphical functionality. Anything other than backend logic and you'll want a real Mac. You'll also want a real mac if you want anything fancy like Core Data to save everything. You'll still need to draw your text on screen somehow. You'll want an iOS UI framework, that isn't available for testing on Windows or Linux. Also, OpenGL and OpenGL ES are similar, but, I don't know how much code could be used as-is between the two platforms. My hunch is that there are parts that that can't be completely cross-platform. Also the GNUstep manual claims you can create graphical application with the provided libraries. Maybe for Mac OS X, with AppKit. There's no open version of UIKit for iOS.
  - hsmyers 16y ago
    I had little trouble with a first AppKit app after finding http://www.gnustep.it/nicola/Tutorials/WritingMakefiles/node6.html http://www.gnustep.it/nicola/Tutorials/WritingMakefiles/node... There are links to additional articles/tutorials suggesting more complexity is available...
    - Zev 16y ago
      My point about AppKit is that AppKit doesn't exist on the iPhone or iPad. You need to use UIKit instead.
      - octopus 16y ago
        You right. The idea is that there are some people (me included) that are forced to use a Windows machine a few hours a day. I have an iMac at home on which I test/compile my code from time to time. From my experience you can safely implement on Windows about 90% of an application, because I restrain myself to use only the functions that are compatible with both OpenGL ES and OpenGL I'm able to implement parts of the graphical components of my app too. This is an incremental process and I always check,in the evening, on my iMac. Take a game of Tic Tac Toe for example, you can implement the computer movements (game AI) on GNUstep. You can also use Blender to create your graphical objects ... In the end only about 10% of the code actually needs a real Mac.
aerique 16y ago
If you have an iPhone but no machine running OS X you can develop directly on the phone by jailbreaking it and installing the toolchain from Cydia.

younata 16y ago

GNUstep is actually not that bad. The most annoying thing is writing the makefiles. They have good documentation if you are building a library, command line tool, or application. If you aren't, then the documentation is basically "this exists. Go read the source." I've ported a few foundation tools to bsd. I'm weird in that objective-c is my language of choice.

pavlov 16y ago
I like Cocotron (another open source Cocoa implementation) because it integrates into Xcode. No separate makefiles to maintain for my Windows or Linux builds, just another target in the same project as the original Mac version. (I realize that cross-compiling to Windows from the Mac is not what the original post is about -- just thought someone might be interested in that option as well.)
- younata 16y ago
  I like the idea of Cocotron. However, I just could not get it to work on compiling for my bsd system. C'est la vie.
torpor 16y ago
I've lately become very addicted to Objective-C, after a few months of hacking apps for iOS .. and I'm finding myself wishing I could use it at my day job (OS developer for safety-critical systems) .. its just such a sweet language, very friendly and easy to use.
riffraff 16y ago
what were you building that is not a (graphical I suppose) application nor a command line tool nor a library? (honest question)
- younata 16y ago
  I was in the process of porting frothkit [1], a web framework, to run on gnustep. I gave up on that, sadly. [1] http://frothkit.org/ http://frothkit.org/

oemera 16y ago

Yeah with GNUStep you can develop Objective-C on a Windows machine. However I wouldn't recommend that. Not because I want you to buy a Mac. No, it's because I did exactly the same thing and after a few "Hello Worlds" I tried to develop an calculator in Objective-C and it worked very well unless I wanted to compile it on a Mac. My whole code, which wasn't much for sure, was not working and errors came all over the place. I cant remember why but I was little nervous to have learned the wrong syntax. If you don't have a Mac at home try to virtualize it and if you are serious about iPhone development then go and buy a Mac. Again not because I'm using a Mac no it is because it will make your live way easier and let's you focus on development rather than messing around with the environment.

d_r 16y ago
That, and you don't need a top-of-the-line $2000+ Mac Pro to develop (I think those are for video/graphics guys, anyway.) For example, my main dev box is a Mac Mini (and it flies even with 2 monitors, Xcode, Eclipse, and a bunch of other things open at the same time.) One could even grab a refurb to make it more affordable.

malkia 16y ago

Or better find WebObjects 4.5.2 (latest 4.5) - it's OpenStep/NeXT/Cocoa precursor for Windows. It has gcc, objective-c, debugger, sampler, etc. Or Cocotron... wait - you can't compile with it on Windows... But if you want to use through Common Lisp, then ClozureCL started using it.

rbanffy 16y ago
I think there was an OpenStep for Windows with the complete NeXT development toolset - editors and GUI builder. I remember seeing it. It could, of course, be part of WebObjects.