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I would say that is a problem in any place where it is desirable to live these days. Locations I've experienced first hand: London, Sydney, Bay area, Los Angele

I would say that is a problem in any place where it is desirable to live these days. Locations I've experienced first hand: London, Sydney, Bay area, Los Angeles, Vancouver... and I'm sure there are many more where you can't buy on that salary.

em3rgent0rdr 7y ago
Not in all desirable players. Only ones that limit construction. Meanwhile in desirable places which allow more construction, like Tokyo, housing prices have stabilized [1]. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottbeyer/2016/08/12/tokyos-affordable-housing-strategy-build-build-build/#76e93ff548d5 https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottbeyer/2016/08/12/tokyos-af...
- throw0101a 7y ago
  > Not in all desirable players. Only ones that limit construction. Toronto has more construction (120) cranes than anyone else in North America (Seattle & LA second at 50), and prices are still crazy even with a building boom. * https://www.on-sitemag.com/heavy-equipment/toronto-remains-unrivalled-in-north-american-construction-crane-count/1003964481/ https://www.on-sitemag.com/heavy-equipment/toronto-remains-u... * https://canada.constructconnect.com/dcn/news/economic/2019/08/toronto-tops-crane-count-list https://canada.constructconnect.com/dcn/news/economic/2019/0... And that 120 is just in the city proper, the suburbs have more towers as well: * https://www.livabl.com/2019/07/246-cranes-toronto-suburban-condos.html https://www.livabl.com/2019/07/246-cranes-toronto-suburban-c...
  - mixmastamyk 7y ago
    Cranes suggest there is demand, not that it has yet been met.
    - throw0101a 7y ago
      One can not "limit construction" (per GP) and yet still have high prices.
    - brutus1213 7y ago
      Three points. 1) The condos being built in Toronto are "luxury" apartments .. apart from space (perhaps to justify the lack thereof), many trimmings are opulent (granite counters seem standard now). 2) Toronto does restrict houses (not condos) because of the greenbelt put in place about a decade ago. 3) The transit system in Ontario and the highways are quite horrible for people living far away (e.g. above the green built).
hogFeast 7y ago
This isn't really the case. First, to talk about the place I know best, cities in the UK outside London are pretty expensive too. The UK has a disproportionate share of the world's expensive cities, despite being a relatively middle-income country. Demand isn't rising fast, it is just impossible to build (usually due to "environmental" planning regulations). That is an unforced error. Second, there are examples of large cities that don't have these issues. Berlin is probably one of the most well-known examples, they had a ton of public housing. They started breaking some of these buildings up, and guess what...rents are going up. Third, it is worth getting some perspective on this. There are cities that have almost no land that have managed much higher growth. Property in Singapore, for example, is expensive by international standards but, given per capita incomes and given the population density, they have actually not done badly (particularly when you look at access instead of average price). That is equally true of China (some cities in China have gone for 0 to millions of people...this makes the growth in most Western cities look flaccid). You could even say that New York has managed this reasonably well too (there has been investment in transport infrastructure at least, which is another cause of rising prices in some cities). It is hard to generalise about this because policy is often made locally. But I think it is also clear that part of the problem is local policy causing a problem in aggregate. That is systemic and unrelated to demand.
- aledalgrande 7y ago
  > The UK has a disproportionate share of the world's expensive cities, despite being a relatively middle-income country. How is that a counter example? > Second, there are examples of large cities that don't have these issues. Berlin is probably one of the most well-known examples, > and guess what...rents are going up It seems you are contradicting yourself, or it is not clear what you wanted to say. > part of the problem is local policy causing a problem in aggregate Definitely a problem. But I would say there's not many cities that can escape it. As for NYC, which you mentioned, in the last 10 years the average price nearly doubled [1]. While salaries didn't grow that fast. [1] https://www.zillow.com/new-york-ny/home-values/ https://www.zillow.com/new-york-ny/home-values/
throwing838383 7y ago
There are many examples where that's not true: places like the beautiful college town of madison, Houston, Chicago, etc. High living costs are a self imposed problem: housing regulation and zoning.
- jhall1468 7y ago
  I agree, generally, but that's ignoring geographic boundaries which are huge for cities like Seattle and San Francisco. It's not the main issue (regulation and zoning are) but it's still a big piece of it.
  - aledalgrande 7y ago
    Yeah I guess you could get around it by building a ton of infrastructure like in Japan.
refurb 7y ago
When I first moved to the US a decade ago, I got a job in a mid-sized city in Michigan paying $52,000 per year. Had zero problem saving up a down payment in a couple years. Brand new houses were $150k and older, nice home were $90k. Of course the job prospects aren’t as good as a major city, but housing isn’t a major issue.
- aledalgrande 7y ago
  > When I first moved to the US a decade ago Isn't that around the time all the housing price dropped? > mid-sized city in Michigan That might not be in the list of the places where most people desire to live. > Of course the job prospects aren’t as good as a major city, but housing isn’t a major issue. I think this is not following my comment. The point is not to talk about where affordable places are, but about how affordable places where a lot of people want to go can be.
  - refurb 7y ago
    Point is that there are jobs in places that might not be the most desirable, but you can afford to buy a nice home on a modest salary. Making it possible for everyone to live in their most desirable city isn't realistic.

em3rgent0rdr 7y ago

Not in all desirable players. Only ones that limit construction. Meanwhile in desirable places which allow more construction, like Tokyo, housing prices have stabilized [1]. [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottbeyer/2016/08/12/tokyos-affordable-housing-strategy-build-build-build/#76e93ff548d5 https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottbeyer/2016/08/12/tokyos-af...

throw0101a 7y ago
> Not in all desirable players. Only ones that limit construction. Toronto has more construction (120) cranes than anyone else in North America (Seattle & LA second at 50), and prices are still crazy even with a building boom. * https://www.on-sitemag.com/heavy-equipment/toronto-remains-unrivalled-in-north-american-construction-crane-count/1003964481/ https://www.on-sitemag.com/heavy-equipment/toronto-remains-u... * https://canada.constructconnect.com/dcn/news/economic/2019/08/toronto-tops-crane-count-list https://canada.constructconnect.com/dcn/news/economic/2019/0... And that 120 is just in the city proper, the suburbs have more towers as well: * https://www.livabl.com/2019/07/246-cranes-toronto-suburban-condos.html https://www.livabl.com/2019/07/246-cranes-toronto-suburban-c...
- mixmastamyk 7y ago
  Cranes suggest there is demand, not that it has yet been met.
  - throw0101a 7y ago
    One can not "limit construction" (per GP) and yet still have high prices.
  - brutus1213 7y ago
    Three points. 1) The condos being built in Toronto are "luxury" apartments .. apart from space (perhaps to justify the lack thereof), many trimmings are opulent (granite counters seem standard now). 2) Toronto does restrict houses (not condos) because of the greenbelt put in place about a decade ago. 3) The transit system in Ontario and the highways are quite horrible for people living far away (e.g. above the green built).

hogFeast 7y ago

This isn't really the case. First, to talk about the place I know best, cities in the UK outside London are pretty expensive too. The UK has a disproportionate share of the world's expensive cities, despite being a relatively middle-income country. Demand isn't rising fast, it is just impossible to build (usually due to "environmental" planning regulations). That is an unforced error. Second, there are examples of large cities that don't have these issues. Berlin is probably one of the most well-known examples, they had a ton of public housing. They started breaking some of these buildings up, and guess what...rents are going up. Third, it is worth getting some perspective on this. There are cities that have almost no land that have managed much higher growth. Property in Singapore, for example, is expensive by international standards but, given per capita incomes and given the population density, they have actually not done badly (particularly when you look at access instead of average price). That is equally true of China (some cities in China have gone for 0 to millions of people...this makes the growth in most Western cities look flaccid). You could even say that New York has managed this reasonably well too (there has been investment in transport infrastructure at least, which is another cause of rising prices in some cities). It is hard to generalise about this because policy is often made locally. But I think it is also clear that part of the problem is local policy causing a problem in aggregate. That is systemic and unrelated to demand.

aledalgrande 7y ago
> The UK has a disproportionate share of the world's expensive cities, despite being a relatively middle-income country. How is that a counter example? > Second, there are examples of large cities that don't have these issues. Berlin is probably one of the most well-known examples, > and guess what...rents are going up It seems you are contradicting yourself, or it is not clear what you wanted to say. > part of the problem is local policy causing a problem in aggregate Definitely a problem. But I would say there's not many cities that can escape it. As for NYC, which you mentioned, in the last 10 years the average price nearly doubled [1]. While salaries didn't grow that fast. [1] https://www.zillow.com/new-york-ny/home-values/ https://www.zillow.com/new-york-ny/home-values/

throwing838383 7y ago

There are many examples where that's not true: places like the beautiful college town of madison, Houston, Chicago, etc. High living costs are a self imposed problem: housing regulation and zoning.

jhall1468 7y ago
I agree, generally, but that's ignoring geographic boundaries which are huge for cities like Seattle and San Francisco. It's not the main issue (regulation and zoning are) but it's still a big piece of it.
- aledalgrande 7y ago
  Yeah I guess you could get around it by building a ton of infrastructure like in Japan.

refurb 7y ago

When I first moved to the US a decade ago, I got a job in a mid-sized city in Michigan paying $52,000 per year. Had zero problem saving up a down payment in a couple years. Brand new houses were $150k and older, nice home were $90k. Of course the job prospects aren’t as good as a major city, but housing isn’t a major issue.

aledalgrande 7y ago
> When I first moved to the US a decade ago Isn't that around the time all the housing price dropped? > mid-sized city in Michigan That might not be in the list of the places where most people desire to live. > Of course the job prospects aren’t as good as a major city, but housing isn’t a major issue. I think this is not following my comment. The point is not to talk about where affordable places are, but about how affordable places where a lot of people want to go can be.
- refurb 7y ago
  Point is that there are jobs in places that might not be the most desirable, but you can afford to buy a nice home on a modest salary. Making it possible for everyone to live in their most desirable city isn't realistic.