4 ms·

To do a laundry list[1] of other things that I would consider less important than voting requires an ID, which in turn requires you to go to the dreaded DMV. Is

To do a laundry list[1] of other things that I would consider less important than voting requires an ID, which in turn requires you to go to the dreaded DMV. Is it the duty of the government to provide the ID for these people? Nope. [1]] https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/24-things-that-require-a-photo-id https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/24-things-that-require-a-... Almost every single one of which is either illegal, or very difficult to do without an ID.

slg 7y ago
None of these things listed are constitutional rights like voting and most of the things listed are more difficult but not impossible without ID.
- neonIcon 7y ago
  Clearly you haven't tried to do half of these things without an ID.. and a good portion of the other half would likely be illegal. You are correct about the constitutional right however.
  - slg 7y ago
    Most times people say ID is "required" is because they are lazy and don't want to go through the effort of confirming identity using other means. There are certainly things that do legally require ID like opening a bank account, but others just have a strong preference for ID such as flying which can be done without ID if you are committed to fighting through the difficulties.
    - neonIcon 7y ago
      I am not sure where you live but in the U.S. flying without an ID of some sort is impossible, and an accepted ID other than a drivers license all have an arguably larger barrier to entry than going to the DMV and paying the ~$10 and an hour+ of your time. That or you are someone with an inordinate amount of resources available to you and are looking at this problem through rose colored glasses.
      - crooked-v 7y ago
        Consider places like the town where the DMV is only open four days per year, and the closest alternative is 20 miles away and only open two days per week. https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2016/feb/19/john-oliver/office-provides-id-voting-one-wisconsin-burg-open-/ https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2016/feb/19/... There are a lot of people for whom the 'small' barrier to entry of dealing with state bureaucracy is much larger than it is in your world.
        neonIcon 7y ago
        Then by all means make them stay open more often instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Voter ID is important and should certainly include provisions in the legislation to help make it easier for people to get a government issued ID. However, for most people in America I would wager that this is not the case at all and you have just cherry picked an edge case to suit your argument.
        crooked-v 7y ago
        > Voter ID is important Voter ID would be important, but unfortunately, the Republican Party has repurposed the concept as a tool of oppression rather than a way to secure the vote. People are rightly wary of the idea because of this, and will continue to be wary of it until free and no-hassle IDs are available to everyone first. > However, for most people in America I would wager that this is not the case at all Most? Probably. But "most" doesn't matter. Voting is a fundamental part of the democratic process, and "most" still leaves millions of people in the lurch. Make it "all" and then I'll stop being upset about it.
        9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago
        The population of that place is ca 3000 people. In Europe you don't have a dmv in a village and you get it done after every ten years at some bigger city or town. And yes it costs a bit too.
      - slg 7y ago
        Once again, it is highly suggested you use an ID, but it isn't 100% required. From TSA's website[1]: >In the event you arrive at the airport without valid identification, because it is lost or at home, you may still be allowed to fly. The TSA officer may ask you to complete an identity verification process which includes collecting information such as your name, current address, and other personal information to confirm your identity. If your identity is confirmed, you will be allowed to enter the screening checkpoint. You will be subject to additional screening, to include a patdown and screening of carry-on property. [1] - https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification
- souprock 7y ago
  This one is: "12. Purchase a gun" On the other hand, unless you are one of the 538 electors, you don't have a constitutional right to vote for the president. So if "constitutional rights" is the determining factor, it's the ID requirement for guns that you should be fighting against.
  - slg 7y ago
    I'm not a legal scholar, but I believe there are more restrictions on the 2nd Amendment than there are on the amendments related to voting. Specifically the 24th Amendment prohibits the poll tax and requiring a voter to pay for an ID is in practice a poll tax. Also this topic isn't limited to presidential elections, so that Electoral College logic loophole doesn't apply to all elections.

slg 7y ago

None of these things listed are constitutional rights like voting and most of the things listed are more difficult but not impossible without ID.

neonIcon 7y ago
Clearly you haven't tried to do half of these things without an ID.. and a good portion of the other half would likely be illegal. You are correct about the constitutional right however.
- slg 7y ago
  Most times people say ID is "required" is because they are lazy and don't want to go through the effort of confirming identity using other means. There are certainly things that do legally require ID like opening a bank account, but others just have a strong preference for ID such as flying which can be done without ID if you are committed to fighting through the difficulties.
  - neonIcon 7y ago
    I am not sure where you live but in the U.S. flying without an ID of some sort is impossible, and an accepted ID other than a drivers license all have an arguably larger barrier to entry than going to the DMV and paying the ~$10 and an hour+ of your time. That or you are someone with an inordinate amount of resources available to you and are looking at this problem through rose colored glasses.
    - crooked-v 7y ago
      Consider places like the town where the DMV is only open four days per year, and the closest alternative is 20 miles away and only open two days per week. https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2016/feb/19/john-oliver/office-provides-id-voting-one-wisconsin-burg-open-/ https://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2016/feb/19/... There are a lot of people for whom the 'small' barrier to entry of dealing with state bureaucracy is much larger than it is in your world.
      - neonIcon 7y ago
        Then by all means make them stay open more often instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water. Voter ID is important and should certainly include provisions in the legislation to help make it easier for people to get a government issued ID. However, for most people in America I would wager that this is not the case at all and you have just cherry picked an edge case to suit your argument.
        crooked-v 7y ago
        > Voter ID is important Voter ID would be important, but unfortunately, the Republican Party has repurposed the concept as a tool of oppression rather than a way to secure the vote. People are rightly wary of the idea because of this, and will continue to be wary of it until free and no-hassle IDs are available to everyone first. > However, for most people in America I would wager that this is not the case at all Most? Probably. But "most" doesn't matter. Voting is a fundamental part of the democratic process, and "most" still leaves millions of people in the lurch. Make it "all" and then I'll stop being upset about it.
      - 9HZZRfNlpR 7y ago
        The population of that place is ca 3000 people. In Europe you don't have a dmv in a village and you get it done after every ten years at some bigger city or town. And yes it costs a bit too.
    - slg 7y ago
      Once again, it is highly suggested you use an ID, but it isn't 100% required. From TSA's website[1]: >In the event you arrive at the airport without valid identification, because it is lost or at home, you may still be allowed to fly. The TSA officer may ask you to complete an identity verification process which includes collecting information such as your name, current address, and other personal information to confirm your identity. If your identity is confirmed, you will be allowed to enter the screening checkpoint. You will be subject to additional screening, to include a patdown and screening of carry-on property. [1] - https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification
souprock 7y ago
This one is: "12. Purchase a gun" On the other hand, unless you are one of the 538 electors, you don't have a constitutional right to vote for the president. So if "constitutional rights" is the determining factor, it's the ID requirement for guns that you should be fighting against.
- slg 7y ago
  I'm not a legal scholar, but I believe there are more restrictions on the 2nd Amendment than there are on the amendments related to voting. Specifically the 24th Amendment prohibits the poll tax and requiring a voter to pay for an ID is in practice a poll tax. Also this topic isn't limited to presidential elections, so that Electoral College logic loophole doesn't apply to all elections.