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> 10% of households don't have a computer Does this include smart phones? Seems like percent of people with Internet access would be more relevant. I would thi

> 10% of households don't have a computer Does this include smart phones? Seems like percent of people with Internet access would be more relevant. I would think public libraries would also provide a lot of coverage here. > 15% of adults don't have a driver's license What's the statistic for adults with any kind of government issued identification? Surely that's more relevant for this debate than the driver's license statistic?

crooked-v 7y ago
> What's the statistic for adults with any kind of government issued identification? Surely that's more relevant for this debate than the driver's license statistic? A factor to keep in mind here is that it's an established tactic for Republicans to specifically allow alternative IDs used by whites for voting purposes, while banning alternative IDs used by blacks for voting purposes. A North Carolina law was struck down in 2016 specifically for this reason, for example.
- weberc2 7y ago
  Sure. Let's strike that shit down. Make sure ID requirements are even across the board. Seems like a pretty tractable problem.
  - zucker42 7y ago
    Designing a system where people in power take actions that cause them to be less likely to remain in power is probably one of the most intractable problems in political science. It's why the U.S. has first past the post, why gerrymandering is a problem, and why voter ID laws are racist.
    - weberc2 7y ago
      So to be clear, we can’t have common sense non-racist voter ID laws because the Republicans won’t allow it (and defeating entrenched interests is hopelessly intractable, so why bother), but somehow there will be more political will for no voter ID requirements at all?
      - zucker42 7y ago
        No the point is that there are other voting reform laws that will have an actual effect on improving representation and don't have the practical effect of preventing black people from voting. I'm suggesting the problems we have with voting rights in this country are not caused by failing to require ID at polling stations. I'm not opposed to voter IDs in a theoretical sense, it just seems like either a unimportant or disingenuous thing to do first.
        weberc2 7y ago
        Of course, they don’t have the practical effect of preventing blacks from voting. Can we stop conflating abuses in the US with the same system that works uncontroversially all over the world? I’m not arguing it’s the most important thing to do, only that it’s ridiculous that we have a debate about whether or not it’s a problem and the solution is cheaper than investigating.

crooked-v 7y ago

> What's the statistic for adults with any kind of government issued identification? Surely that's more relevant for this debate than the driver's license statistic? A factor to keep in mind here is that it's an established tactic for Republicans to specifically allow alternative IDs used by whites for voting purposes, while banning alternative IDs used by blacks for voting purposes. A North Carolina law was struck down in 2016 specifically for this reason, for example.

weberc2 7y ago
Sure. Let's strike that shit down. Make sure ID requirements are even across the board. Seems like a pretty tractable problem.
- zucker42 7y ago
  Designing a system where people in power take actions that cause them to be less likely to remain in power is probably one of the most intractable problems in political science. It's why the U.S. has first past the post, why gerrymandering is a problem, and why voter ID laws are racist.
  - weberc2 7y ago
    So to be clear, we can’t have common sense non-racist voter ID laws because the Republicans won’t allow it (and defeating entrenched interests is hopelessly intractable, so why bother), but somehow there will be more political will for no voter ID requirements at all?
    - zucker42 7y ago
      No the point is that there are other voting reform laws that will have an actual effect on improving representation and don't have the practical effect of preventing black people from voting. I'm suggesting the problems we have with voting rights in this country are not caused by failing to require ID at polling stations. I'm not opposed to voter IDs in a theoretical sense, it just seems like either a unimportant or disingenuous thing to do first.
      - weberc2 7y ago
        Of course, they don’t have the practical effect of preventing blacks from voting. Can we stop conflating abuses in the US with the same system that works uncontroversially all over the world? I’m not arguing it’s the most important thing to do, only that it’s ridiculous that we have a debate about whether or not it’s a problem and the solution is cheaper than investigating.