5 ms·

Let's say you're arrested (so fingerprinted, DNA-swabbed, mug-shotted, etc) but then not charged or convicted. Is there a way to get those records expunged? (

by mLuby 7y ago

Let's say you're arrested (so fingerprinted, DNA-swabbed, mug-shotted, etc) but then not charged or convicted. Is there a way to get those records expunged? (IMO the innocent—and maybe those who've served their sentence—ought to be able to do this.)

itronitron 7y ago
This doesn't answer your question, but it is important to keep in mind that being arrested is not a crime.
- tdfx 7y ago
  It's treated as such for a wide variety of things. Condo associations use arrest records as red flags for potential residents. Any arrest record removes your status with the global entry programs with CBP. I'm sure there's many more I'm not even familiar with. Even when you're completely exonerated, the arrest record haunts you until you can expunge it.
big_chungus 7y ago
A lot of good it does, when more and more states are requiring fingerprints to get a driver's license. The various governments want the data, and are simply taking it from a progressively-larger set of people. It's obviously not equal in severity, but the "First they came..." poem certainly applies here. They are simply rolling this out in stages: first in the most "sensitive" spots, such as airports. Then it will be most federal buildings, or other "high-security" locations. Then it will be routine.
- BlueTemplar 7y ago
  Giving your fingerprints is already pretty mandatory for all the French citizens, and now the government is pushing for face recognition to be used as the default identification system... (meanwhile, centralized databases on all the citizens were illegal just a couple decades ago !)
  - big_chungus 7y ago
    It's amazing how governments exempt themselves from laws. GDPR for the rest of Europe, but for the governments, privacy does not matter. I'm not saying it makes sense to apply the same rules letter-for-letter (gov't has to have _something_), but even the same spirit would do.
einpoklum 7y ago
> Is there a way to get those records expunged? Really? "Yes sir, we have entirely expunged your data and you have the US government's solemn promise that we didn't make a copy of the files we're not telling you about." Effectively, there is no such thing as expunging digital data. There's always probably some extra copy somewhere.
- mLuby 7y ago
  Sure, don't trust them but still make it legally clear what's allowed and isn't instead of this grey area we have today. Then they'd have to do parallel construction because they can't admit there's a still secret biometrics database out there. And secrets love to be whistle-blown about so that'll happen eventually and reset their progress. There's no silver bullet, just a long battle of attrition.
  - rjf72 7y ago
    How would that reset their progress? The leaks have revealed that our secret organizations are pretty open (at least among themselves) about parallel construction. For instance this article [1] reveals some slides of the more harmless surveillance data on a target. Nonetheless, in a giant disclaimer at the top the NSA reminds their agents "This information is provided for intelligence purposes in an effort to develop potential leads. It cannot be used in affidavits, court proceedings, or subpoenas, or for other legal or judicial purposes." And as the leaks have fallen off the news cycle, along with an interesting rise of misinformation in social media, you gradually see people beginning to understate what was revealed and to show ever less concern over it. It's actually a phenomenal demonstration for how a secret agency should handle a leak to avoid any meaningful consequences of what is ostensibly ground-breaking information on programs that are, at best, in legally grey areas, all being released to the public en masse. Snowden no doubt felt that his leaks would change our approach to intelligence if not our entire nation. In reality, next to nothing changed. [1] - https://theintercept.com/2016/08/14/nsa-gcsb-prism-surveillance-fullman-fiji/ https://theintercept.com/2016/08/14/nsa-gcsb-prism-surveilla...
- mistrial9 7y ago
  you are spreading misinformation here -- there is legal precedent, and courts do matter

by mLuby 7y ago

itronitron 7y ago

This doesn't answer your question, but it is important to keep in mind that being arrested is not a crime.

tdfx 7y ago
It's treated as such for a wide variety of things. Condo associations use arrest records as red flags for potential residents. Any arrest record removes your status with the global entry programs with CBP. I'm sure there's many more I'm not even familiar with. Even when you're completely exonerated, the arrest record haunts you until you can expunge it.

big_chungus 7y ago

A lot of good it does, when more and more states are requiring fingerprints to get a driver's license. The various governments want the data, and are simply taking it from a progressively-larger set of people. It's obviously not equal in severity, but the "First they came..." poem certainly applies here. They are simply rolling this out in stages: first in the most "sensitive" spots, such as airports. Then it will be most federal buildings, or other "high-security" locations. Then it will be routine.

BlueTemplar 7y ago
Giving your fingerprints is already pretty mandatory for all the French citizens, and now the government is pushing for face recognition to be used as the default identification system... (meanwhile, centralized databases on all the citizens were illegal just a couple decades ago !)
- big_chungus 7y ago
  It's amazing how governments exempt themselves from laws. GDPR for the rest of Europe, but for the governments, privacy does not matter. I'm not saying it makes sense to apply the same rules letter-for-letter (gov't has to have _something_), but even the same spirit would do.

einpoklum 7y ago

> Is there a way to get those records expunged? Really? "Yes sir, we have entirely expunged your data and you have the US government's solemn promise that we didn't make a copy of the files we're not telling you about." Effectively, there is no such thing as expunging digital data. There's always probably some extra copy somewhere.

mLuby 7y ago
Sure, don't trust them but still make it legally clear what's allowed and isn't instead of this grey area we have today. Then they'd have to do parallel construction because they can't admit there's a still secret biometrics database out there. And secrets love to be whistle-blown about so that'll happen eventually and reset their progress. There's no silver bullet, just a long battle of attrition.
- rjf72 7y ago
  How would that reset their progress? The leaks have revealed that our secret organizations are pretty open (at least among themselves) about parallel construction. For instance this article [1] reveals some slides of the more harmless surveillance data on a target. Nonetheless, in a giant disclaimer at the top the NSA reminds their agents "This information is provided for intelligence purposes in an effort to develop potential leads. It cannot be used in affidavits, court proceedings, or subpoenas, or for other legal or judicial purposes." And as the leaks have fallen off the news cycle, along with an interesting rise of misinformation in social media, you gradually see people beginning to understate what was revealed and to show ever less concern over it. It's actually a phenomenal demonstration for how a secret agency should handle a leak to avoid any meaningful consequences of what is ostensibly ground-breaking information on programs that are, at best, in legally grey areas, all being released to the public en masse. Snowden no doubt felt that his leaks would change our approach to intelligence if not our entire nation. In reality, next to nothing changed. [1] - https://theintercept.com/2016/08/14/nsa-gcsb-prism-surveillance-fullman-fiji/ https://theintercept.com/2016/08/14/nsa-gcsb-prism-surveilla...
mistrial9 7y ago
you are spreading misinformation here -- there is legal precedent, and courts do matter