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FWIW, I work at Mozilla and I have used telemetry in the way it's meant to be used. I'm sure there are cases where it's misused the way you describe, but by no

FWIW, I work at Mozilla and I have used telemetry in the way it's meant to be used. I'm sure there are cases where it's misused the way you describe, but by no means are all the cases like that.

catalogia 7y ago
Relating to my other comment in this thread, when you used telemetry at Mozilla did you make or violate the default assumption of user equality? Were all users given equal weight, or were socially influential power users given a greater weight?
- staktrace 7y ago
  All users were given equal weight. From the dashboards at telemetry.mozilla.org you can't even tell which users are more socially influential. And to be precise, with many of the metrics that I've used, they tend to be per-pageload or per-action rather than per-user. Edited to add: my comment makes it sound like there is some other way to tell from telemetry data which users are more socially influential. That's not the case as far as I know.
  - catalogia 7y ago
    Has anybody at Mozilla been pointing out that "data-driven" design predicated on incomplete data, making incorrect assumptions about the relative importance of different users, might be contributing to the decline of Firefox? A single power user who happens to be a system administrator for a public school district has the power to install or uninstall hundreds of firefox instances. And it was power users that spread word-of-mouth awareness of firefox the most during the days when firefox was actually growing. Continue to treat them as equals to all other users and I predict firefox will continue its tragic slide into obscurity.
    - staktrace 7y ago
      Yes, this argument comes up once in a while, and is handled by people who know more about it than I do.
      - catalogia 7y ago
        Are you sure they know more about it than you, or do they just style themselves as knowledgeable? If mozilla really wants to be truly data driven, then maybe they should look at the data and realize that perhaps trying to be data-driven has contributed to Firefox's decline into relative obscurity. The way I see it, "data driven" design is often similar to an over-reliance on standardized testing or zero-tolerance policies; a way of abdicating responsibility for a decision and covering your own ass. "Users hate this but I'm not to blame because I was just going off the data" has become the new "Sure everything ended up going sideways, but can you really blame me for buying IBM? Nobody gets fired for buying IBM." Where is the data to suggest that data-driven design actually produces the desired results? That seems to be missing.
        staktrace 7y ago
        This is not a very productive discussion. I don't want to blow you off with a "trust the experts" kind of response, but that's basically what it boils down to. You are certainly entitled to second guess people whose livelihood it is to keep Mozilla going from your comfortable armchair, but I'm going to extricate myself from this discussion.

FWIW, I work at Mozilla and I have used telemetry in the way it's meant to be used. I'm sure there are cases where it's misused the way you describe, but by no means are all the cases like that.

catalogia 7y ago

Relating to my other comment in this thread, when you used telemetry at Mozilla did you make or violate the default assumption of user equality? Were all users given equal weight, or were socially influential power users given a greater weight?

staktrace 7y ago
All users were given equal weight. From the dashboards at telemetry.mozilla.org you can't even tell which users are more socially influential. And to be precise, with many of the metrics that I've used, they tend to be per-pageload or per-action rather than per-user. Edited to add: my comment makes it sound like there is some other way to tell from telemetry data which users are more socially influential. That's not the case as far as I know.
- catalogia 7y ago
  Has anybody at Mozilla been pointing out that "data-driven" design predicated on incomplete data, making incorrect assumptions about the relative importance of different users, might be contributing to the decline of Firefox? A single power user who happens to be a system administrator for a public school district has the power to install or uninstall hundreds of firefox instances. And it was power users that spread word-of-mouth awareness of firefox the most during the days when firefox was actually growing. Continue to treat them as equals to all other users and I predict firefox will continue its tragic slide into obscurity.
  - staktrace 7y ago
    Yes, this argument comes up once in a while, and is handled by people who know more about it than I do.
    - catalogia 7y ago
      Are you sure they know more about it than you, or do they just style themselves as knowledgeable? If mozilla really wants to be truly data driven, then maybe they should look at the data and realize that perhaps trying to be data-driven has contributed to Firefox's decline into relative obscurity. The way I see it, "data driven" design is often similar to an over-reliance on standardized testing or zero-tolerance policies; a way of abdicating responsibility for a decision and covering your own ass. "Users hate this but I'm not to blame because I was just going off the data" has become the new "Sure everything ended up going sideways, but can you really blame me for buying IBM? Nobody gets fired for buying IBM." Where is the data to suggest that data-driven design actually produces the desired results? That seems to be missing.
      - staktrace 7y ago
        This is not a very productive discussion. I don't want to blow you off with a "trust the experts" kind of response, but that's basically what it boils down to. You are certainly entitled to second guess people whose livelihood it is to keep Mozilla going from your comfortable armchair, but I'm going to extricate myself from this discussion.