7 ms·

> but your pay is roughly correlated with the value of your labour. It is not. The value fire-fighters, teachers or nurses provide is much higher than, say, an

> but your pay is roughly correlated with the value of your labour. It is not. The value fire-fighters, teachers or nurses provide is much higher than, say, an enterprise developer, yet in most places the other earns more.

sjg007 7y ago
Firefighters can make bank.. overtime and all that. Teachers are underpaid and nurses are probably too but they too can do well working overtime etc...
- monocasa 7y ago
  Firefighters and teachers are normally overtime exempt salary. And it's not really fair to nurses to say "you only get a fair wage if you're putting in 60-80 hours". It's also not fair to their patients, as care quality drops pretty hard when you over work nurses and doctors.
  - sjg007 7y ago
    Firefighters get both salary and overtime. So do cops. Benefit of having a union.
    - monocasa 7y ago
      Depends heavily on the district.
- Jiig 7y ago
  There is something seriously wrong the with the idea that its ok to underpay these very important jobs because they can eek out a living wage by working every hour of their waking life, sacrificing mental and physical health to do so.
Fernicia 7y ago
It's marginal utility, not labour value or labour usefulness that determines wage price. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_value https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_value
strken 7y ago
What's the marginal value of hiring another fire-fighter? I suspect it's a lot lower than the marginal value of hiring another enterprise developer, since firefighting is already fairly well staffed and since hiring professionals cuts into volunteering firefighting organisations. The same seems like it's true of teachers and nurses. They're seen as a cost centre to be reduced rather than a scarce resource to be fought over.
pkaye 7y ago
Some of those people do make a pretty good salary in California though. For example in Oakland, the Fire Department Captain makes $472k/year. https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/2018/oakland/ https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/2018/oakland/
- SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
  How many positions for Oakland Dept Fire Captain are there? I’m in the market.
  - dbancajas 7y ago
    Even regular police officers on that page earn 350K! damn am in the wrong industry.
    - pkaye 7y ago
      Police jobs have some risks but there are a few engineering jobs there which are not too bad. And the guaranteed pension is the icing on top.
scarejunba 7y ago
Your premise is not unquestionable. On what is your value claim based?

sjg007 7y ago

Firefighters can make bank.. overtime and all that. Teachers are underpaid and nurses are probably too but they too can do well working overtime etc...

monocasa 7y ago
Firefighters and teachers are normally overtime exempt salary. And it's not really fair to nurses to say "you only get a fair wage if you're putting in 60-80 hours". It's also not fair to their patients, as care quality drops pretty hard when you over work nurses and doctors.
- sjg007 7y ago
  Firefighters get both salary and overtime. So do cops. Benefit of having a union.
  - monocasa 7y ago
    Depends heavily on the district.
Jiig 7y ago
There is something seriously wrong the with the idea that its ok to underpay these very important jobs because they can eek out a living wage by working every hour of their waking life, sacrificing mental and physical health to do so.

Fernicia 7y ago

It's marginal utility, not labour value or labour usefulness that determines wage price. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_value https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_value

strken 7y ago

What's the marginal value of hiring another fire-fighter? I suspect it's a lot lower than the marginal value of hiring another enterprise developer, since firefighting is already fairly well staffed and since hiring professionals cuts into volunteering firefighting organisations. The same seems like it's true of teachers and nurses. They're seen as a cost centre to be reduced rather than a scarce resource to be fought over.

pkaye 7y ago

Some of those people do make a pretty good salary in California though. For example in Oakland, the Fire Department Captain makes $472k/year. https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/2018/oakland/ https://transparentcalifornia.com/salaries/2018/oakland/

SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
How many positions for Oakland Dept Fire Captain are there? I’m in the market.
- dbancajas 7y ago
  Even regular police officers on that page earn 350K! damn am in the wrong industry.
  - pkaye 7y ago
    Police jobs have some risks but there are a few engineering jobs there which are not too bad. And the guaranteed pension is the icing on top.

scarejunba 7y ago

Your premise is not unquestionable. On what is your value claim based?