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Also, a lot of the "pros" of living in Switzerland are basically the same as in the US. In any other low-key metropolis (Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, Austin, Phoen

Also, a lot of the "pros" of living in Switzerland are basically the same as in the US. In any other low-key metropolis (Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, Austin, Phoenix, Des Moines, whatever) a software developer with 5 years of experience can earn $130k and buy houses for $250k - $350k. If you're single, you can get luxury 1 BD apartments for $1500 in happening parts of town. Plus, in the enterprise world it's very easy to find 40/hr wk (or in practice, sometimes less!) jobs. Not all of them have the natural beauty of Switzerland, but if you want that, you can find that too. My next move might be working for Amazon in Nashville after I put in a few good years at my current gig. That seems like it could be a nice place to live.

saiya-jin 7y ago
You obviously never lived in Switzerland. Can't explain all the US-CH differences in few words, but some benefits: better healthcare, better social system, much much safer, actually working public school system, great clean nature on your doorstep, I can be in 2 minutes of drive in beautiful France and 1 hour drive in Italy and rest of Europe is just around the corner. Very health and sport-oriented mentality. Super strong middle class which creates much healthier long term society. Much better (and healthier!) food, population that has most voting power in the world and actually votes sanely. You can have all the guns you can have in US too :) And so on and on and on... Oh, and your tax dollars don't support wars making the world a significantly worse place with all the rest of evil attached, if you care about such things.
- iamasoftwaredev 7y ago
  > Oh, and your tax dollars don't support wars making the world a significantly worse place with all the rest of evil attached, if you care about such things. I do, but unfortunately for Switzerland I also care about stopping Nazis. > population that has most voting power in the world and since the 70s even women can vote! I'm obviously just messing with you, but I do have a point and that is that as an outsider the Swiss political system just seems messed up in different ways.
- asdfman123 7y ago
  > Oh, and your tax dollars don't support wars making the world a significantly worse place with all the rest of evil attached, if you care about such things. I'm not trying to sound defensive here, but in a global world there has to be a superpower or two playing the role of a superpower. And if you like Western democratic ideals, it's a good thing that they're aligned with those. The whole world is living in the relatively peaceful and prosperous structure of alliances that were established after WWII, and I personally wouldn't want to see those disappear. Maybe if you live in China, Russia, Brazil, or the Middle East, or you have a different value system than I do, you might disagree.
- bwanab 7y ago
  As an American who lived in Switzerland for a couple of years, I agree with all these points. If I could have, I would have stayed there. Edit add: On the other hand, at least when I was there, the wages weren't comparable to US wages for similar work and management attitudes about software developers tended to border on considering them glorified typists.
- SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
  I don’t agree or disagree with any specific points. I just think it’s funny you are 1:1 comparing a country twice the size of, with the same population of New Jersey, with its single city over 250k... to the entirety of the United States.
- dmode 7y ago
  Not sure why you are getting downvoted. But Switzerland is a stunning country, with snow capped mountains and lush green hills everywhere. And unbelievable public transit and train system. I don't think anywhere in the US is comparable. Even in Colorado and Sierras you have to drive down treacherous roads with mad traffic. In Switzerland, you just relax in a train as it takes you to 12K feet elevation
gypsypunk 7y ago
Sorry, but Austin is not low COL. you’re way off the mark with those numbers for anything near Austin central and it’s going up exceedingly fast.
- SavageBeast 7y ago
  I was in total agreement with this and for fun I did a Zillow search and there are in fact a good many condos that are asking <=$350K. Some of them are even large enough to turn around in too. I have to say I'm a little surprised. None of them are awesome but I've seen many a worse place in The Lower Haight.
  - gypsypunk 7y ago
    Zip codes 78701-78704 are the most relevant. $350k will buy you a house that is falling apart from the 1920s in most cases. It is not “cheap” here by the national standard. Just comparatively to the coasts.
    - kod 7y ago
      78704 is still the best zip code in the country though
- omarhaneef 7y ago
  In fairness to the person you are responding to[1], the numbers were probably true 5 years ago, sort of true 3 years ago and only seem completely off in the last 2 years. [1] I find the term OP to be ambivalent. Like is it the original poster of the whole thread or the original poster you are responding to?
- asdfman123 7y ago
  You are correct -- I haven't checked on Austin in quite a while. However, my point is you don't have to choose between an expensive, top US tech hub and leaving the states entirely if you want a more chill, laid back, and less expensive lifestyle. There are like 50 other cities in the US that offer all the amenities of a big city, with chill jobs and without the sky-high COL.
vonmoltke 7y ago
> In any other low-key metropolis (Dallas [...]) a software developer with 5 years of experience can earn $130k My 15 YOE ass left Dallas three years ago partly because I couldn't break $100k there. Where are these jobs? That said, I bought my house in 2008 for $175k.
iamasoftwaredev 7y ago
> In any other low-key metropolis (Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, Austin, Phoenix, Des Moines, whatever) I'd wager the typical city in Switzerland is much more liveable (i.e. not being trapped in a car as you commute to and from suburbs or just get around the horribly laid out car-centric city) than those places.
- asdfman123 7y ago
  In some of those cities, sure, but if you want walkable city center you can find that, too, and just choose to live there. Living in the suburbs is a choice and certainly not the only option in most cities. If you want to live near a real downtown, it's still way, way, cheaper than living some globally-recognized urban center. Maybe not quite as cool, but way more laid back.

saiya-jin 7y ago

You obviously never lived in Switzerland. Can't explain all the US-CH differences in few words, but some benefits: better healthcare, better social system, much much safer, actually working public school system, great clean nature on your doorstep, I can be in 2 minutes of drive in beautiful France and 1 hour drive in Italy and rest of Europe is just around the corner. Very health and sport-oriented mentality. Super strong middle class which creates much healthier long term society. Much better (and healthier!) food, population that has most voting power in the world and actually votes sanely. You can have all the guns you can have in US too :) And so on and on and on... Oh, and your tax dollars don't support wars making the world a significantly worse place with all the rest of evil attached, if you care about such things.

iamasoftwaredev 7y ago
> Oh, and your tax dollars don't support wars making the world a significantly worse place with all the rest of evil attached, if you care about such things. I do, but unfortunately for Switzerland I also care about stopping Nazis. > population that has most voting power in the world and since the 70s even women can vote! I'm obviously just messing with you, but I do have a point and that is that as an outsider the Swiss political system just seems messed up in different ways.
asdfman123 7y ago
> Oh, and your tax dollars don't support wars making the world a significantly worse place with all the rest of evil attached, if you care about such things. I'm not trying to sound defensive here, but in a global world there has to be a superpower or two playing the role of a superpower. And if you like Western democratic ideals, it's a good thing that they're aligned with those. The whole world is living in the relatively peaceful and prosperous structure of alliances that were established after WWII, and I personally wouldn't want to see those disappear. Maybe if you live in China, Russia, Brazil, or the Middle East, or you have a different value system than I do, you might disagree.
bwanab 7y ago
As an American who lived in Switzerland for a couple of years, I agree with all these points. If I could have, I would have stayed there. Edit add: On the other hand, at least when I was there, the wages weren't comparable to US wages for similar work and management attitudes about software developers tended to border on considering them glorified typists.
SlowRobotAhead 7y ago
I don’t agree or disagree with any specific points. I just think it’s funny you are 1:1 comparing a country twice the size of, with the same population of New Jersey, with its single city over 250k... to the entirety of the United States.
dmode 7y ago
Not sure why you are getting downvoted. But Switzerland is a stunning country, with snow capped mountains and lush green hills everywhere. And unbelievable public transit and train system. I don't think anywhere in the US is comparable. Even in Colorado and Sierras you have to drive down treacherous roads with mad traffic. In Switzerland, you just relax in a train as it takes you to 12K feet elevation

gypsypunk 7y ago

Sorry, but Austin is not low COL. you’re way off the mark with those numbers for anything near Austin central and it’s going up exceedingly fast.

SavageBeast 7y ago
I was in total agreement with this and for fun I did a Zillow search and there are in fact a good many condos that are asking <=$350K. Some of them are even large enough to turn around in too. I have to say I'm a little surprised. None of them are awesome but I've seen many a worse place in The Lower Haight.
- gypsypunk 7y ago
  Zip codes 78701-78704 are the most relevant. $350k will buy you a house that is falling apart from the 1920s in most cases. It is not “cheap” here by the national standard. Just comparatively to the coasts.
  - kod 7y ago
    78704 is still the best zip code in the country though
omarhaneef 7y ago
In fairness to the person you are responding to[1], the numbers were probably true 5 years ago, sort of true 3 years ago and only seem completely off in the last 2 years. [1] I find the term OP to be ambivalent. Like is it the original poster of the whole thread or the original poster you are responding to?
asdfman123 7y ago
You are correct -- I haven't checked on Austin in quite a while. However, my point is you don't have to choose between an expensive, top US tech hub and leaving the states entirely if you want a more chill, laid back, and less expensive lifestyle. There are like 50 other cities in the US that offer all the amenities of a big city, with chill jobs and without the sky-high COL.

vonmoltke 7y ago

> In any other low-key metropolis (Dallas [...]) a software developer with 5 years of experience can earn $130k My 15 YOE ass left Dallas three years ago partly because I couldn't break $100k there. Where are these jobs? That said, I bought my house in 2008 for $175k.

iamasoftwaredev 7y ago

> In any other low-key metropolis (Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, Austin, Phoenix, Des Moines, whatever) I'd wager the typical city in Switzerland is much more liveable (i.e. not being trapped in a car as you commute to and from suburbs or just get around the horribly laid out car-centric city) than those places.

asdfman123 7y ago
In some of those cities, sure, but if you want walkable city center you can find that, too, and just choose to live there. Living in the suburbs is a choice and certainly not the only option in most cities. If you want to live near a real downtown, it's still way, way, cheaper than living some globally-recognized urban center. Maybe not quite as cool, but way more laid back.