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> the use-case for this range is when there is NO obstacles to go through (it does not really work otherwise...) So, on the one hand, 5G is going to make unico

> the use-case for this range is when there is NO obstacles to go through (it does not really work otherwise...) So, on the one hand, 5G is going to make unicorns fly down and carry us to the heavens on wings of pure data, and on the other hand, it can't go through walls...? Research shows that two thirds of consumers are not willing to pay even $1 more for 5G internet. [0] Regardless of the promises companies are making to each other and consumers today, the demand for 5G just doesn't seem consumer-driven. --- [0] https://www.pwc.com/us/en/services/consulting/library/consumer-intelligence-series/promise-5g.html https://www.pwc.com/us/en/services/consulting/library/consum...

mytailorisrich 7y ago
Most data are consumed indoor anyway, so mmwave will likely be used through indoor micro cells. mmwave also allows to boost capacity. As already written in my previous comment, 5G is not just about faster internet. Other use-cases are as important, if not more. Operators know they can't charge consumers extra.
- testis321 7y ago
  This! You can put a mmwave basestation in a factory (a couple of cells near the ceiling) and controll everything (machines, "robots", transporters, forklifts, inventory,...) via LTE.
  - navaati 7y ago
    But why not just use wifi then ?
    - mytailorisrich 7y ago
      Wifi has low capacity (in terms of number of connected devices) and offers no guarantee on anything (latency, reliability). It is not suited for critical and industrial applications.
- tboyd47 7y ago
  Right, so far we've learned: 1) 5G improves wireless internet - though it only works over short-range and can't go through walls. 2) 5G needs a massive deployment of new devices to reach consumers - though most consumers are not willing to pay even $1 more for 5G. 3) 5G is a prerequisite for amazing new tech like IoT and self-driving cars - many of which already exist and will continue to use existing 3G and 4G bands. "Dubious" is actually me being generous!
  - GhettoMaestro 7y ago
    You're obsessed with "5G can't go through walls". This is a meme and does a dis-service to your knowledge. 5G reuses existing 3G and 4G frequencies, but with better rf management (among other things). The mmwave frequencies are to address mass-crowd scenarios, which currently today already cause 4G DAS deployments to almost burst at the seams. These are not "my" opinions. These are the current state of affairs re RF management and planning.
    - tboyd47 7y ago
      Well, it might be unsophisticated of me to belabor my point, but it doesn't take a genius to see that there are major technical drawbacks with 5G, and the industry has not been successful in convincing consumers to buy into the hype. Telcos are blowing $26 billion on this new tech, so I think it's important to question how they're going to make that money back. If you read how the industry itself answers this question, hint: it's not self-driving cars. It is 5G network slicing. The current wireless infrastructure is built on net neutrality, so they cannot differentiate traffic without rebuilding it all from scratch. That is the real reason behind the $26 billion rollout and millions of new devices. They need to rebuild the internet to charge enterprise customers high prices and 5G is just how they decided to market this project to the public. They need to do this before the political environment changes or else they lose their opportunity.
  - gsich 7y ago
    >3) 5G is a prerequisite for amazing new tech like IoT and self-driving cars - many of which already exist and will continue to use existing 3G and 4G bands That sounds like marketing hype from an ISP. A self-driving car that is dependent on a radio network to operate is by defonition, not self-driving.
vorpalhex 7y ago
You've never been in an expo hall with 10k people all trying to post an instagram photo, have you?
- 0xDEEPFAC 7y ago
  So the solution is the radiate the entire group of people for instagram?
  - mytailorisrich 7y ago
    As already said, this will use beam forming, which means that the radio energy is focused at the receiver. This means less interference to others around, and higher capacity.
  - dzhiurgis 7y ago
    It's already radiated, but now with less power. 5G is safer than previous tech (3-5 orders safer than radio that has been around for something like 2 centuries).
GhettoMaestro 7y ago
> So, on the one hand, 5G is going to make unicorns fly down and carry us to the heavens on wings of pure data, and on the other hand, it can't go through walls...? This fact has nothing to do with 5G. It is physics. A high-frequency carrier is not able to penetrate objects as well as it does with a lower frequency.

mytailorisrich 7y ago

Most data are consumed indoor anyway, so mmwave will likely be used through indoor micro cells. mmwave also allows to boost capacity. As already written in my previous comment, 5G is not just about faster internet. Other use-cases are as important, if not more. Operators know they can't charge consumers extra.

testis321 7y ago
This! You can put a mmwave basestation in a factory (a couple of cells near the ceiling) and controll everything (machines, "robots", transporters, forklifts, inventory,...) via LTE.
- navaati 7y ago
  But why not just use wifi then ?
  - mytailorisrich 7y ago
    Wifi has low capacity (in terms of number of connected devices) and offers no guarantee on anything (latency, reliability). It is not suited for critical and industrial applications.
tboyd47 7y ago
Right, so far we've learned: 1) 5G improves wireless internet - though it only works over short-range and can't go through walls. 2) 5G needs a massive deployment of new devices to reach consumers - though most consumers are not willing to pay even $1 more for 5G. 3) 5G is a prerequisite for amazing new tech like IoT and self-driving cars - many of which already exist and will continue to use existing 3G and 4G bands. "Dubious" is actually me being generous!
- GhettoMaestro 7y ago
  You're obsessed with "5G can't go through walls". This is a meme and does a dis-service to your knowledge. 5G reuses existing 3G and 4G frequencies, but with better rf management (among other things). The mmwave frequencies are to address mass-crowd scenarios, which currently today already cause 4G DAS deployments to almost burst at the seams. These are not "my" opinions. These are the current state of affairs re RF management and planning.
  - tboyd47 7y ago
    Well, it might be unsophisticated of me to belabor my point, but it doesn't take a genius to see that there are major technical drawbacks with 5G, and the industry has not been successful in convincing consumers to buy into the hype. Telcos are blowing $26 billion on this new tech, so I think it's important to question how they're going to make that money back. If you read how the industry itself answers this question, hint: it's not self-driving cars. It is 5G network slicing. The current wireless infrastructure is built on net neutrality, so they cannot differentiate traffic without rebuilding it all from scratch. That is the real reason behind the $26 billion rollout and millions of new devices. They need to rebuild the internet to charge enterprise customers high prices and 5G is just how they decided to market this project to the public. They need to do this before the political environment changes or else they lose their opportunity.
- gsich 7y ago
  >3) 5G is a prerequisite for amazing new tech like IoT and self-driving cars - many of which already exist and will continue to use existing 3G and 4G bands That sounds like marketing hype from an ISP. A self-driving car that is dependent on a radio network to operate is by defonition, not self-driving.

vorpalhex 7y ago

You've never been in an expo hall with 10k people all trying to post an instagram photo, have you?

0xDEEPFAC 7y ago
So the solution is the radiate the entire group of people for instagram?
- mytailorisrich 7y ago
  As already said, this will use beam forming, which means that the radio energy is focused at the receiver. This means less interference to others around, and higher capacity.
- dzhiurgis 7y ago
  It's already radiated, but now with less power. 5G is safer than previous tech (3-5 orders safer than radio that has been around for something like 2 centuries).

GhettoMaestro 7y ago

> So, on the one hand, 5G is going to make unicorns fly down and carry us to the heavens on wings of pure data, and on the other hand, it can't go through walls...? This fact has nothing to do with 5G. It is physics. A high-frequency carrier is not able to penetrate objects as well as it does with a lower frequency.