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It tells you that a wrongly applied system can cause damage. In respect of Aadhar in India, I know the Anti pattern where they deduplicated many undeserving pe

by vkaku 7y ago

It tells you that a wrongly applied system can cause damage. In respect of Aadhar in India, I know the Anti pattern where they deduplicated many undeserving people receiving 'welfare' payouts from the state. Is this to state that either of these approaches are right? No. Eliminate the skunk out of the politics, and such things won't happen.

firasd 7y ago
I'm not sure what welfare payouts you're referring to; the Indian state mostly assists via subsidies rather than cash. Lately they have moved to direct benefits transfer (ie a payment into a bank account) for the cooking gas subsidy, which is an anti-corruption move meant to route around intermediaries who divert subsidized cylinders and sell them at market rate. The problem is that Aadhar (introduced initially for subsidies) has become a biometric ID system to link more and more of a person's life to this government ID. A few weeks ago a child died of rabies and the first excuse the hospital gave to delay treatment was that they wanted her Aadhar: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/agra/rabies-infected-minor-who-died-waiting-for-treatment-denied-vaccine-15-times-at-chc/articleshow/70832635.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/agra/rabies-infecte... I am disappointed whenever I see Bill Gates mindlessly applauding Aadhar. It is easy to side with technocratic ideas from just reading headlines, but if a biometric surveillance state is such a great idea he should have it advocated for it in the US first. (Another example of a technocratic authoritarian move he initially made some positive murmurs about was demonetization, which now, three years later, has proven to have had a disastrous effect on India's economy.)
- vkaku 7y ago
  Here's a direct example of what happened after Aadhar came in to play: https://www.livemint.com/Money/aJ6VPyH94gNVwm8alEs87L/11-lakh-PAN-cards-deactivated-Heres-how-to-check-if-your-c.html https://www.livemint.com/Money/aJ6VPyH94gNVwm8alEs87L/11-lak... So there were roughly 1.1m duplicate tax numbers, and were cut off from writing tax savings of roughly $4000+ a year. Like I said, it's not a question of what it is, but how it's used that matters. When people (inside and outside government) treat social security schemes and tax payer money as profiteering schemes, bad things will happen.
- kristianc 7y ago
  > I am disappointed whenever I see Bill Gates mindlessly applauding Aadhar. It is easy to side with technocratic ideas from just reading headlines, but if a biometric surveillance state is such a great idea he should have it advocated for it in the US first. I agree with this. It’s not acceptable to use the developing world as a staging box for ideas and policies that are, at best, in beta and likely to have bugs.
  - whatshisface 7y ago
    India is a democracy that votes for its own laws, nobody is using it as a "staging box."

by vkaku 7y ago

firasd 7y ago

I'm not sure what welfare payouts you're referring to; the Indian state mostly assists via subsidies rather than cash. Lately they have moved to direct benefits transfer (ie a payment into a bank account) for the cooking gas subsidy, which is an anti-corruption move meant to route around intermediaries who divert subsidized cylinders and sell them at market rate. The problem is that Aadhar (introduced initially for subsidies) has become a biometric ID system to link more and more of a person's life to this government ID. A few weeks ago a child died of rabies and the first excuse the hospital gave to delay treatment was that they wanted her Aadhar: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/agra/rabies-infected-minor-who-died-waiting-for-treatment-denied-vaccine-15-times-at-chc/articleshow/70832635.cms https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/agra/rabies-infecte... I am disappointed whenever I see Bill Gates mindlessly applauding Aadhar. It is easy to side with technocratic ideas from just reading headlines, but if a biometric surveillance state is such a great idea he should have it advocated for it in the US first. (Another example of a technocratic authoritarian move he initially made some positive murmurs about was demonetization, which now, three years later, has proven to have had a disastrous effect on India's economy.)

vkaku 7y ago
Here's a direct example of what happened after Aadhar came in to play: https://www.livemint.com/Money/aJ6VPyH94gNVwm8alEs87L/11-lakh-PAN-cards-deactivated-Heres-how-to-check-if-your-c.html https://www.livemint.com/Money/aJ6VPyH94gNVwm8alEs87L/11-lak... So there were roughly 1.1m duplicate tax numbers, and were cut off from writing tax savings of roughly $4000+ a year. Like I said, it's not a question of what it is, but how it's used that matters. When people (inside and outside government) treat social security schemes and tax payer money as profiteering schemes, bad things will happen.
kristianc 7y ago
> I am disappointed whenever I see Bill Gates mindlessly applauding Aadhar. It is easy to side with technocratic ideas from just reading headlines, but if a biometric surveillance state is such a great idea he should have it advocated for it in the US first. I agree with this. It’s not acceptable to use the developing world as a staging box for ideas and policies that are, at best, in beta and likely to have bugs.
- whatshisface 7y ago
  India is a democracy that votes for its own laws, nobody is using it as a "staging box."