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Don't you think, that 5g is stupid idea, if masts have to by every, 200 - 300? meters, it will be terribly ugly, and how it's suppose to work in farms?

by tu7001 7y ago

maffydub 7y ago
5G doesn't need masts every 200-300m. There are multiple different frequency bands you can use. The lowest frequencies are around the same as 4G, so you should need similar numbers of masts to get reasonable coverage. The highest are around 60GHz - these are pretty much line-of-sight and are likely to be used for shorter-range (but super-high-bandwidth) applications.
- superkuh 7y ago
  What he means is that 5G offers only a ~15-20% increase in thoroughput with it's new set of modulation schemes given the same frequency span using 4G. So the increase in performance has to come from new frequency use. They'll steal half of C-band from satellite uplink but then all that's left is millimeter wave to truly get more thoroughput. And that does have the problem about the propagation characteristics.
  - merpnderp 7y ago
    Throughout isn’t the biggest advantage, it’s the vastly smaller time slicing allowing far more active connections.
  - maffydub 7y ago
    5G isn't just about bandwidth, though. There's quite a useful diagram at the bottom of https://techblog.comsoc.org/2017/03/02/itu-r-agrees-on-key-performance-requirements-for-imt-20205g/ https://techblog.comsoc.org/2017/03/02/itu-r-agrees-on-key-p... showing the three key use cases. As well as "Enhanced Mobile Broadband" (which does focus on increased bandwidth), there's also * "Massive IoT", which focuses on reducing power requirements and increasing the number of devices that can be served in a single cell (assuming they all transmit very little data) * "Low Latency", which focuses on better scheduling and quality of service.
monkeynotes 7y ago
4G and often 3G don't work in many rural areas. I expect 5G will follow the trend and be concentrated in high population areas, at least to begin with. I think 5G will mostly be in cities, with antennas on buildings. Masts aren't really practical for the network density required. I imagine as you exit a city you'll have the older infrastructure.
- bluGill 7y ago
  Rural areas are getting 4g. 3g is common, and 2g is even being turned off in some places. 5g will start coming to rural areas soon as some of the options make it more suited to rural areas than 4g. In 10 years we will probably be talking about 6g...
  - checker 7y ago
    We'll definitely be talking about 6G in 10 years because the carriers and device makers need something to sell [1]. At the end of the day it's just a label to get new tech developments into the market. And history has shown that even if the 6G spec is unobtainable then in 10 years the carriers will water it down so they can claim "6G" capabilities [2,3]. I don't necessarily disagree with this because 10 years seems to be a good interval to introduce incremental improvements. 1. https://www.pcmag.com/article/360533/what-is-6g https://www.pcmag.com/article/360533/what-is-6g 2. https://www.howtogeek.com/399560/5g-e-isnt-real-5g.-heres-what-you-need-to-know/ https://www.howtogeek.com/399560/5g-e-isnt-real-5g.-heres-wh... 3. https://gizmodo.com/the-dirty-secret-of-todays-4g-its-not-4g-5680755 https://gizmodo.com/the-dirty-secret-of-todays-4g-its-not-4g...
  - monkeynotes 7y ago
    Obviously you haven't been to rural Maine.
    - bluGill 7y ago
      I follow national (and international to some extent) trends as my employer has many rural customers. What happens in any given location isn't a trend.
bluGill 7y ago
In the densest cities you want a mast every 200 meters anyway, and the more bandwidth you can get from those masts the better. It is all in the name of serving the large number of people in those areas. High frequency serves this niche well. In rural areas you don't have very many people to serve. You would still like a mast every 200 meters, but it isn't cost effective (the one farmer who would use it every couple months wouldn't like to steer their tractor around it) so you compromise bandwidth for lower frequencies.

Don't you think, that 5g is stupid idea, if masts have to by every, 200 - 300? meters, it will be terribly ugly, and how it's suppose to work in farms?

by tu7001 7y ago

Don't you think, that 5g is stupid idea, if masts have to by every, 200 - 300? meters, it will be terribly ugly, and how it's suppose to work in farms?

maffydub 7y ago

5G doesn't need masts every 200-300m. There are multiple different frequency bands you can use. The lowest frequencies are around the same as 4G, so you should need similar numbers of masts to get reasonable coverage. The highest are around 60GHz - these are pretty much line-of-sight and are likely to be used for shorter-range (but super-high-bandwidth) applications.

superkuh 7y ago
What he means is that 5G offers only a ~15-20% increase in thoroughput with it's new set of modulation schemes given the same frequency span using 4G. So the increase in performance has to come from new frequency use. They'll steal half of C-band from satellite uplink but then all that's left is millimeter wave to truly get more thoroughput. And that does have the problem about the propagation characteristics.
- merpnderp 7y ago
  Throughout isn’t the biggest advantage, it’s the vastly smaller time slicing allowing far more active connections.
- maffydub 7y ago
  5G isn't just about bandwidth, though. There's quite a useful diagram at the bottom of https://techblog.comsoc.org/2017/03/02/itu-r-agrees-on-key-performance-requirements-for-imt-20205g/ https://techblog.comsoc.org/2017/03/02/itu-r-agrees-on-key-p... showing the three key use cases. As well as "Enhanced Mobile Broadband" (which does focus on increased bandwidth), there's also * "Massive IoT", which focuses on reducing power requirements and increasing the number of devices that can be served in a single cell (assuming they all transmit very little data) * "Low Latency", which focuses on better scheduling and quality of service.

monkeynotes 7y ago

4G and often 3G don't work in many rural areas. I expect 5G will follow the trend and be concentrated in high population areas, at least to begin with. I think 5G will mostly be in cities, with antennas on buildings. Masts aren't really practical for the network density required. I imagine as you exit a city you'll have the older infrastructure.

bluGill 7y ago
Rural areas are getting 4g. 3g is common, and 2g is even being turned off in some places. 5g will start coming to rural areas soon as some of the options make it more suited to rural areas than 4g. In 10 years we will probably be talking about 6g...
- checker 7y ago
  We'll definitely be talking about 6G in 10 years because the carriers and device makers need something to sell [1]. At the end of the day it's just a label to get new tech developments into the market. And history has shown that even if the 6G spec is unobtainable then in 10 years the carriers will water it down so they can claim "6G" capabilities [2,3]. I don't necessarily disagree with this because 10 years seems to be a good interval to introduce incremental improvements. 1. https://www.pcmag.com/article/360533/what-is-6g https://www.pcmag.com/article/360533/what-is-6g 2. https://www.howtogeek.com/399560/5g-e-isnt-real-5g.-heres-what-you-need-to-know/ https://www.howtogeek.com/399560/5g-e-isnt-real-5g.-heres-wh... 3. https://gizmodo.com/the-dirty-secret-of-todays-4g-its-not-4g-5680755 https://gizmodo.com/the-dirty-secret-of-todays-4g-its-not-4g...
- monkeynotes 7y ago
  Obviously you haven't been to rural Maine.
  - bluGill 7y ago
    I follow national (and international to some extent) trends as my employer has many rural customers. What happens in any given location isn't a trend.

bluGill 7y ago

In the densest cities you want a mast every 200 meters anyway, and the more bandwidth you can get from those masts the better. It is all in the name of serving the large number of people in those areas. High frequency serves this niche well. In rural areas you don't have very many people to serve. You would still like a mast every 200 meters, but it isn't cost effective (the one farmer who would use it every couple months wouldn't like to steer their tractor around it) so you compromise bandwidth for lower frequencies.