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Disclaimer: I'm french and I'm living in China since my wife is Chinese. It's not only about brainwashing. 40 years ago 85% of the chinese population was belo

Disclaimer: I'm french and I'm living in China since my wife is Chinese. It's not only about brainwashing. 40 years ago 85% of the chinese population was below the poverty line. Today it's between 10% and 15%. Under the party governance, almost everyone saw their life standards go up substantially. A lot of the people studying abroad saw their family starting from the bottom and they can now afford to study in western universities. They think the Chinese system works because economically it is working very well so far. Just another example: We have some friends who bought a very expensive new apartment in Beijing (around 4.5M US$). This is a brand new residence founded by Wang Jianlin, the founder of Wanda Group (the most powerful estate developer in China). The government allowed him to run this project under one condition: to build 3 apartment blocks on the same field (sharing the same park) which will be given to families under the poverty line. A lot of the wealthy people complained a lot about this, 1/3 of them got a refund and the price of the apartments dropped. So to get back to my point, this is not only brainwashing. The party is giving its people a new life, and these people will be thankful and loyal for at least decades. I'm curious about how a long term economic recession could change people minds though.

goatinaboat 7y ago
They think the Chinese system works because economically it is working very well so far. How do they rationalise that HK had a far higher standard of living all along, by doing exactly the opposite of what the CCP said?
throw0101a 7y ago
> I'm curious about how a long term economic recession could change people minds though. At what point will be start going up Maslow's hierarchy of needs and what more that material / economic satisfaction? Will there come a point when people feel "rich enough" and want other things? Recently the vlogger laowhy86 and his Chinese wife have moved to the US because things have gotten a bit too 'totalitarian' for him in China: * https://www.youtube.com/user/laowhy86/videos https://www.youtube.com/user/laowhy86/videos
throw0101a 7y ago
> I'm curious about how a long term economic recession could change people minds though. What is the 'cultural priority' of the Chinese people? > But, with only very few exceptions, they really conceived of liberalism not as an end in itself but rather as a means to the decidedly nationalist ends of wealth and power. They believed that liberalism was part of the formula that had allowed the U.S. and Great Britain to become so mighty. [...] > It must be understood that liberalism and nationalism developed in China in lockstep, with one, in a sense, serving as means to the other. That is, liberalism was a means to serve national ends — the wealth and power of the country. And so when means and end came into conflict, as they inevitably did, the end won out. Nationalism trumped liberalism. Unity, sovereignty, and the means to preserve both were ultimately more important even to those who espoused republicanism and the franchise. * https://supchina.com/2019/07/22/why-do-chinese-people-like-their-government/ https://supchina.com/2019/07/22/why-do-chinese-people-like-t...
JackFr 7y ago
And yet it is brainwashing that they believe the CCP is responsible for the bulk of the poverty reduction, rather than simply opening China to international trade. When one compares the postwar growth of Japan, Hong Kong and Taiwan to that of China it might be more correct to say that rather than making them rich, the CCP stopped empoverishing the people.
TurkishPoptart 7y ago
China is wealthy in spite of the CCP and its strict control, not because of it. And until they get private property rights figured it out, they could fail to stay wealthy.
ekianjo 7y ago
That is the definition of brainwashing. If people believe economic growth comes from CCP and not opening up China to international trade then their view of the world is massively skewed.

goatinaboat 7y ago

They think the Chinese system works because economically it is working very well so far. How do they rationalise that HK had a far higher standard of living all along, by doing exactly the opposite of what the CCP said?

throw0101a 7y ago

> I'm curious about how a long term economic recession could change people minds though. At what point will be start going up Maslow's hierarchy of needs and what more that material / economic satisfaction? Will there come a point when people feel "rich enough" and want other things? Recently the vlogger laowhy86 and his Chinese wife have moved to the US because things have gotten a bit too 'totalitarian' for him in China: * https://www.youtube.com/user/laowhy86/videos https://www.youtube.com/user/laowhy86/videos

throw0101a 7y ago

> I'm curious about how a long term economic recession could change people minds though. What is the 'cultural priority' of the Chinese people? > But, with only very few exceptions, they really conceived of liberalism not as an end in itself but rather as a means to the decidedly nationalist ends of wealth and power. They believed that liberalism was part of the formula that had allowed the U.S. and Great Britain to become so mighty. [...] > It must be understood that liberalism and nationalism developed in China in lockstep, with one, in a sense, serving as means to the other. That is, liberalism was a means to serve national ends — the wealth and power of the country. And so when means and end came into conflict, as they inevitably did, the end won out. Nationalism trumped liberalism. Unity, sovereignty, and the means to preserve both were ultimately more important even to those who espoused republicanism and the franchise. * https://supchina.com/2019/07/22/why-do-chinese-people-like-their-government/ https://supchina.com/2019/07/22/why-do-chinese-people-like-t...

JackFr 7y ago

And yet it is brainwashing that they believe the CCP is responsible for the bulk of the poverty reduction, rather than simply opening China to international trade. When one compares the postwar growth of Japan, Hong Kong and Taiwan to that of China it might be more correct to say that rather than making them rich, the CCP stopped empoverishing the people.

TurkishPoptart 7y ago

China is wealthy in spite of the CCP and its strict control, not because of it. And until they get private property rights figured it out, they could fail to stay wealthy.

ekianjo 7y ago

That is the definition of brainwashing. If people believe economic growth comes from CCP and not opening up China to international trade then their view of the world is massively skewed.