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Unfortunately all Chinese citizens must comply under Chinese law with spying requests whenever their intelligence agencies come asking. That makes every Chinese
by erentz 7y ago
Unfortunately all Chinese citizens must comply under Chinese law with spying requests whenever their intelligence agencies come asking. That makes every Chinese citizen in your company a potential spy.
This is shitty on so many levels, and what is the appropriate response? Should Chinese citizens have lower access in US companies? At universities? Etc. That would be a terrible outcome.
We do need some kind of clear asylum option for any Chinese citizen who gets pressured into this. But that only goes so far when the state back home can punish your family members etc.
- blunte 7y ago> Should Chinese citizens have lower access in US companies? At universities? If they can be compelled to act as spies by their government, then Yes, they should have restricted access. It is unfair to an honest person to be judged by the actions of a few in power in their country, but such is life globally (even for US citizens... especially lately).
- fyfy18 7y agoRather than being compelled, what happens if the citizen is voluntarily spying for their government? And maybe it's not even their government, maybe their brother in law is an exec for a competitor back home, so they want to help him out. And rather than being Chinese, maybe the citizen is French. https://www.france24.com/en/20110104-france-industrial-espionage-economy-germany-russia-china-business https://www.france24.com/en/20110104-france-industrial-espio...
- boredishBoi 7y agoWhat if their brother in law is an exec at an American competitor? I don’t see how your example is relevant given we’re discussing governments spying/compelling citizens to spy for them.
- bigwavedave 7y agoExactly. That's wildly different from being tempted to help out an in-law and conflating the two is disingenuous at best.
- notwumao 7y agoChinese citizen here but not a legal expert. I am not aware of any Chinese law requiring compliance with intelligence agencies' request. Can you please give a source?
- onetimemanytime 7y agoHere's one: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/25/us/politics/china-exit-ban.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/25/us/politics/china-exit-ba...
- ddeck 7y agoIt's part of the 2017 National Intelligence Law. Although there is debate regarding the circumstances under which assistance can be compelled, it appears quite broad: The Intelligence Law, by contrast, repeatedly obliges individuals, organizations, and institutions to assist Public Security and State Security officials in carrying out a wide array of “intelligence” work. Article Seven stipulates that “any organization or citizen shall support, assist, and cooperate with state intelligence work according to law.” Article 14, in turn, grants intelligence agencies authority to insist on this support: “state intelligence work organs, when legally carrying forth intelligence work, may demand that concerned organs, organizations, or citizens provide needed support, assistance, and cooperation.” Organizations and citizens must also protect the secrecy of “any state intelligence work secrets of which they are aware.” https://www.lawfareblog.com/beijings-new-national-intelligence-law-defense-offense https://www.lawfareblog.com/beijings-new-national-intelligen...
- jeroenhd 7y agoI haven't heard about any Chinese law that forces its citizens to comply with spying. But, if such a law exists, hiring Chinese nationals (or people who visit China often, for example to visit family) are a risk to secret high-tech projects. The same can be said for hiring Australians dealing with software. Australia has a law that forces its citizens to comply with requests by the government to hide backdoors in code. As a consequence, anything contributed to important project by any Australian citizen is a potential risk. If your project is important enough, Australian contributions should not be accepted. Laws like this make it incredibly risky to hire people from certain nationalities in big companies or for secret projects. Governments are willing to sacrifice the economic value of their citizens for the ability to hack and spy on anyone they like and other countries should respond appropriately. If you show that you're willing to use your citizens to take aggressive action, be prepared to have your citizens refused elsewhere.
- onetimemanytime 7y ago>>I haven't heard about any Chinese law that forces its citizens to comply with spying. But, if such a law exists, hiring Chinese nationals (or people who visit China often, for example to visit family) are a risk to secret high-tech projects. They don't need a specific law, quite a few might do it because of patriotism (just because he is is living in USA for 4 years, he's still connected to the motherland.) Simply one that says "all national are required to answer questions from ..." then they make your life miserable until you do so. Imagine having the entire local and state of government on your back: lawn too dirty, you spit on the sidewalk, taxes...not just you, your entire extended family. In other words, if China and Russia want to make their citizens talk, you will. Or 99% will.
- chrischen 7y agoThey don’t even have to be Chinese. Anyone can be bribed or paid to be compromised.
- DoubleGlazing 7y agoMy best friend is a naval architect, for about a decade he was involved in research at a big UK university. He would joke about how the Chinese students hammered the photocopiers like no one else.